Ternary Computers

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

A ternary computer could use polarization of light rather than the application of current for computation

So could binary computers, were that somehow worth the effort. The problem there with our current tech isn't in the number of states per bit. It's handling the light itself, as well as interfacing the photonic bits to the electronic bits.

The real draw to some applications of optical computing isn't digital at all, but the fact that some functions can be easily computed optically because they're what light "just does" thanks to the laws of physics. You could built special-purpose computational units that are a lot faster than pushing bits around. But those aren't general purpose reprogrammable machines.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Ternary computers could store much more information assuming it took the same amount of physical space for a given number of bits and trits. Does it?.

I can't see how it could. I can store a bit in one circuit element (most simply in an early computer in a switch which is either open or closed), but something that can read and store three levels is going to be a lot more complicated than that. Indeed I expect it to be more than the twice as complex circuit (two switches) you'd need to store 4 states.

[Phantasm]

From a gaming standpoint, I can see the binary/trinary divide coming into play with AI and mental uploads/simulations, which could need three states: TRUE, FALSE, and MAYBE, as opposed to the TRUE and FALSE of binary computing.

But even then, it'd probably be relegated to a mere flavor quirk of Computer Programming (AI), rather than coming up on a regular basis in everyday adventuring: piracy, smuggling, uprisings, political infighting, espionage, sabotage, supporting a side in a conflict, et cetera, et cetera.

Trinary computing may qualify for the Hyperspecialization Perk.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

From a gaming standpoint, I can see the binary/trinary divide coming into play with AI and mental uploads/simulations, which could need three states: TRUE, FALSE, and MAYBE, as opposed to the TRUE and FALSE of binary computing.

That, however, is not really what ternary computing seems to be about, functionally. Ternary arithmetic is one thing, and it's well understood and not a big deal. But though there have been a number of proposals by philosophers and logicians for a ternary logic, there really isn't either general agreement on what such a logic would signify, or a systematically worked out three-valued logic with applications in mathematical reasoning. So far it seems to be a subject for speculation but not to have applications.

Of course, you could make it a Weird Science style that included versions of Computer Programming, Philosophy, and various branches of Mathematics. You wouldn't necessarily have to have a plausible real-world model of what it was about.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

which could need three states: TRUE, FALSE, and MAYBE

TRUE, FALSE, and ASK AGAIN LATER.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

TRUE, FALSE, and ASK AGAIN LATER.

The Magic 8-Ball had a full icosahedron, so you'll need 17 more answers to round out the set. Luckily, the 20 states per bit must mean that the 8-Ball mesh supercomputer is fantastically more powerful than those lame binary ones. Though it can be a bit awkward to pick up the entire thing to shake it.

[Ashtagon]

tbh, I'm not sure how this would manifest itself in a setting where 3-state computing is the norm. It terms of how it would affect any game skill, it's just a flavour text issue. You could argue that it would allow for a denser amount of storage and/or data processing. But there's the counter-point that making the electronics sensitive enough to distinguish three states instead of two would require extra power, more physical space (magnetic-based data storage can't have "negative" magnetism after all; just extra gradations on the zero-max scale), more research on the tech tree for a given level of functionality, or something else. The two may end up countering each other.

In a setting where the two technologies exist side by side, it's an extreme case of "Mac vs. PC" hardware incompatibility. Low-level programming languages (eg assembly, machine code) would be effectively unrelated; high-level programming languages would be broadly interchangeable, and at the highest level (eg coding for web applications) effectively interchangeable.

Essentially, binary/trinary becomes a required speciality for Computer Programming. Computer Hacking could optionally have binary/trinary as a required speciality, depending on GM preference. Other skills shouldn't be meaningfully affected.

[dynaman]

Even the initial claims are somewhat hard to believe. I've only tracked a little of this down in the limited English sources available. So far each source just has the CLAIM that the machines were more efficient and reliable with no background on proving it. I find that a little hard to believe when the existing machines are basically thrown away...

At the state we are now - getting very close to the point where making electronics smaller may not be possible with current methods due to the inability to shield adjacent bits from each other I don't see how a machine needing three power states could be better.

In the early days there were also analog computers which held some promise, being able to hold a range of values in a single memory space. The miniaturization of binary computers made possible by transistors got rid of the advantages it did have (and I would guess any advantages a Ternary machine would have). Once exception however, a binary machine can only handle fractions as halves of things, where a ternary could handle that as thirds (and decimal can handle it as tenths). You can get around this by shifting the decimal point in the math (as banks did, most likely still do since precision is more important than speed for them) but it kills computational efficiency.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Ashtagon

In terms of how it would affect any game skill, it's just a flavour text issue.

Indeed. Binary was used because it was the simplest, both mathematically, in analysing its capabilities, and electrically.

Low-level programming languages (eg assembly, machine code) would be effectively unrelated

The binary encoding of machine languages would be quite different, but assembly languages are another matter. One of the skills of my job is digging out and reporting compiler bugs, and learning a new assembly language well enough to read compiler output only takes about a day. You don't use binary in reading or writing assembly languages these days: hex, octal or decimal are usual, depending on the machine and tool conventions, and trinary numbers can perfectly well be represented in any of those forms.

The Setun computer, which seems to be what the OP was referring to, was very basic: 81 words of memory, each with 18 trits, plus a drum with 1944 more words. Scaling from that to computers of modern capacity is a bit of a stretch.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ashtagon

Essentially, binary/trinary becomes a required speciality for Computer Programming.

No, it's only a required specialty for people doing chip or compiler design; an ordinary computer programmer needs to know the difference about as much as they need to know the difference between x86 and Power architecture (assuming they remain competitive and one doesn't just wipe out the other).