Spraying Mace...

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Huh? If it wasn't for the metal thing it would be way better than tear gas and baton rounds. The legitimate use is crowd control and riot suppression. You park one in front of an embassy during a riot and no mobs are going to break the gates and murder our ambassadors. They are just going to stay the hell out of the field.

Mobs in back push those in front. So lovely, you created a new way to burn people to death.
All weapons are "less than lethal", so when used improperly can result in slow painful deaths.
But all of that is moot when regarding the metal issue. And off topic for this thread anyway.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Kromm's suggestion of reversing the modifers and getting a straight HT roll.

Or just the basic dirty tricks rule for sprays not specifically designed for combat.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Or just the basic dirty tricks rule for sprays not specifically designed for combat.

Which is what I suggested in the first place, but everybody apparently disagreed with me. Including you.

[vierasmarius]

One concern I have with the rules as written is the difficulty in actually hitting the face. It's a base -5 for the hit location, countered by +2 for the broad spray. That means an average person without special training has an effective skill of 3 (DX 10, -4 default, -3 modifier). Even if you allow All-Out Dedicated to give +4 instead of +1, you still have only a very tiny chance for it to be helpful in a self-defense situation.

What are others' thoughts on this? Should an aerosol spray require a hundred hours of practice with a self-defense teacher in order to be useful?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

One concern I have with the rules as written is the difficulty in actually hitting the face. It's a base -5 for the hit location, countered by +2 for the broad spray. That means an average person without special training has an effective skill of 3 (DX 10, -4 default, -3 modifier). Even if you allow All-Out Dedicated to give +4 instead of +1, you still have only a very tiny chance for it to be helpful in a self-defense situation.

What are others' thoughts on this? Should an aerosol spray require a hundred hours of practice with a self-defense teacher in order to be useful?

Almost any useful self-defense application is going to be a Telegraphic Attack against either a AoA'ing attacker or an "attacker" who isn't even aware that you are defending yourself (and therefore gets no Active Defense and is probably Stunned from Surprise afterwards in addition to a face full of pepper spray).

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Which is what I suggested in the first place, but everybody apparently disagreed with me. Including you.

I don't remember disagreeing with using that rule for things like hair spray in the face. I'm easily distracted by thread derailment though.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Almost any useful self-defense application is going to be a Telegraphic Attack against either a AoA'ing attacker or an "attacker" who isn't even aware that you are defending yourself (and therefore gets no Active Defense and is probably Stunned from Surprise afterwards in addition to a face full of pepper spray).

That makes sense. I guess I hadn't considered allowing Telegraphic for Jet attacks, but they are technically sort of melee-ish or something (I really do not like the implementation of Jets in 4e, but that's a separate issue).

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Almost any useful self-defense application is going to be a Telegraphic Attack against either a AoA'ing attacker or an "attacker" who isn't even aware that you are defending yourself (and therefore gets no Active Defense and is probably Stunned from Surprise afterwards in addition to a face full of pepper spray).

Instinct might be to jerk back the head and block with the hands which is much less effective against sprays than hard objects, I would guess.
And if nothing else gives a fraction of a second for the defender to turn around and start running.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

That makes sense. I guess I hadn't considered allowing Telegraphic for Jet attacks, but they are technically sort of melee-ish or something (I really do not like the implementation of Jets in 4e, but that's a separate issue).

Telegraphic is totally legitimate with Jets (which also are melee attacks for AoA: Determined; a net +5 to target the face!). The standard self-defense deployment is to stick the sprayer squarely in front of the target's face and then depress the trigger; that certainly seems Telegraphic to me!

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Telegraphic is totally legitimate with Jets (which also are melee attacks for AoA: Determined; a net +5 to target the face!). The standard self-defense deployment is to stick the sprayer squarely in front of the target's face and then depress the trigger; that certainly seems Telegraphic to me!

That definitely fits the Telegraphic description. However, it seems like a special case - the same tactic can be used with pistols at point-blank range (essentially pressing the gun into the target before pulling the trigger). I certainly wouldn't allow a flamethrower or fire-breathing dragon to make a Telegraphic Jet attack at 10 yards. But that's a tangent, and Telegraphic AoA certainly fits for close-range self-defense situations.