In Nomine Noir (backwards?)

[Acolyte]

While I first mentioned this as a potential PbP game over here, really this concept came out of a discussion that I had with Rocket Man, and was inspired as well by the "Backwards IN" thread.

Basically, we discussed and agreed that the traditional film noir or dark pulp genres would make a great setting for a game of IN, especially a "backwards" one where the demons were the protagonists. The dirty and scheming city-Principalities of Shal-Mari, Hades, and Stygia would be the setting of this type of game, along with the gritty urbanscapes of Earth: New York, Tokyo, Berlin, Lagos, etc.

There are several ways to implement this. One would be to have a game set in the 1930s on Earth. This would have a few interesting results--Christopher, Fleurity, and Furfur wouldn't be Superiors (and Furfur wouldn't even have his Word yet), Nybbas would be focusing on print journalism and radio, Khalid would still be an angry dude in a tent, Jean/Vapula would be dealing with very different technologies (don't forget Vapula's retro-style ray guns!!!), etc. With the world in the throes of Depression and reeling from "the Great War," (WWI) demons would be making huge grounds (Prohibition? heehee) and angels would be losing big--under traditional IN. But in backwards, low-contrast IN, this could be a free for all, with bad guys on both sides of the Heavenly divide and a few free-willed demons just trying to get by.

Another way to implement this would be to recast the entire concept of the game through a Noir lens--not unlike the concept behind IN: Anime. Here, each Superior and Band/Choir would be recast in a slightly different light to better flesh out a setting where noir-type plots and pulp action would be the norm. For example, David could be behind the rough-and-tumble police who tended to beat confessions out of people (with his 'don't strike first' dissonance condition slightly reworked to be something like 'need probable cause of violent crime to strike first'), and Kobal would have an almost vaudevillian character to him. The end result would be a setting very much fictional in nature, and obviously not the real world, but at the same time potentially very fun to play in--you could run "Who Framed Roger Cherub" as an adventure in this setting.

However you implement it, though, the tone/setting are great for Backwards In Nomine, because the (anti)heroes (who often have the Need [alcohol] Discord) typically end up doing "bad" things while trying to get some good accomplished, or are thrust into situations where all the options are bad ones. Additionally, they're usually going up against "the man" in the form of authoritarian governments or secret police or generally blind sheeple (all 'good' from a backwards IN Heaven's POV). Setting the game entirely in Hell removes most of the angelic interference, but you still have conflict between social, rebellious demons and establishment ones (Baal's cops, Asmodeus' secret police, and Kronos' police informants take the place of Heaven's authority figures). Even though the protagonists of these dramas are drunk, abusive, grumpy, and often ugly, you still root for them to win in their underdog fights started by their limited but staunchly held codes of honor. Sounds like Backwards IN to me. It wouldn't be out of place for there to be a lot of Outcast, Renegade, and Grigori activity, either.

Here are some hypothetically in-game quotes RocketMan and I came up with as we talked about the idea, to perhaps further demonstrate what I'm talking about:

"I could tell from the way the Free Lilim sidled into my office that something was wrong. Her kinda dame didn't belong in this part of Hades. I knew then that I had to help her, even if it meant facing down all of Michael's boys in blue."

Demon: "What's this supposed to be, doll-face?"
Blandine: "It's the stuff that Dreams are made of."

"When we gonna get married, Fat Tony?" the Impudite whined, pushing back her long tresses to reveal the diamonds hanging heavily around her neck. The big Djinn at her side rolled his eyes. "Jeez, Maybelline. Ye know I gotta wait until after we git the Skullz off our turf. Now go look pretty over there." He turned to the Calabim goons. "Now see, this be da plan..."

"It was a rainy night on the streets of Shal-Mari. I shouldn't have been surprised. It's always a rainy night here. But not usually a rain of frogs. Kobal's boys had been busy...."

"Nybbas' boys were good informants, as long as you didn't let them know where you thought the action was going to go down--they'd show up in force, then, cameras aflash. I had had a profitable relationship with a Mike Thompson of the Daily Telegraph--had, because when Big Dave found out about our arrangement, Ol' Mikey ended up breathin' water below the East-end docks."

"I came back to my office to find the biggest mess since Mike One-Horn mouthed off to Tony Doughnuts and got spread over half of Tartarus. The window had been smashed, the gin emptied, everything rifled. My first thought was the Windies. My second thought was the Magpies. My third thought was that it didn't really make much difference...."

"Of course, I hadn't forgotten to renew my concealed weapon license. But the last time my Discord got out of control I mouthed off to some of Asmod's cross-eyed toadies. I guess those slimy weasels had some friends important enough to get my arrested---in time to make me miss my rendezvous with the Outcast informant."

"Vappie's boys were two gremlins short of a Calabite, but they could be handy in a pinch. He was on the phone when I came in ... big client or somethin', some guy called 'Ming.' I waited quietly and told myself not to touch the death rays without an invite ...."

"Joanie was a skirt who didn't tolerate no nonsense. Her bar had lots of dark booths and shrub-shrouded corner tables, and you could get a damn good vodka tonic there. Not to mention the Seraph's aura kept everything nice and peaceable--a truce I'd seen both angels and demons help keep when a newly fledged Hawk or young whelp Blaster tried to shake up the place."

Anyway, what do you all think? Ideas? A fun counter-IN setting? Got more ideas?

[ladyarcana55]

Oh wow! My mind it totally racing, but I have no idea what I would want to play!

[Rocket Man]

Obviously, I'm interested, Acolyte. Do you think me, the Lady, and JCD from the other thread would be enough of a group to start your engine?

My first impressions on the setting are already included in the OP -- but I'd love to see what some of the other twisted minds could come up with to fill out this variant of "John Milton, starring Humphrey Bogart." ;)

[sir_pudding]

Personally I'd prefer the '30s setting to a complete noirification of the system.

It started and ended with a dame. Or at least it should have, but some people just can't let the dead stay buried.

If it hasn't happened already, it will soon; the smoked glass with "Lantern Private Investigation" printed backwards in bold black letters shatters. A hand reaches through the jagged hole and turns the knob. The door opens, scattering the pile of newspapers, unpaid bills and notices that has collected beneath the mail slot. Three things wearing cop bodies swagger in. They search my office thoroughly, but all they find are pens, bullets and empty scotch bottles; the wreckage of a life barely lived in. They won't find what they are looking for; I made sure of that. The city will keep it's dirty little secrets. I don't owe those self-righteous hypocrites anything after what they did to us. In the City of Angels another one fell, and nobody gave a damn.

I know too that she's kneeling by my shattered Heart in the hall of light. Black curls cascade down perfect skin and a white dress that would blind me if I saw it now. I hope she sits there forever crying with a broken heart. It'll make two of us.

A guy could go to hell for thinking like that. I guess I got nothing to lose.

[Acolyte]

Nice! So, does that mean you're interested?

What else would be different about IN, canonically, in the 30s? Has Eli gone walkabout yet? Is Aleamon a Prince? How is Marc handling the Great Depression?

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

Nice! So, does that mean you're interested?

What else would be different about IN, canonically, in the 30s? Has Eli gone walkabout yet? Is Aleamon a Prince? How is Marc handling the Great Depression?

Going off of my timeline in the GMG:

--Eli has begun quietly assigning his Servitors to other Archangels, but doesn't start wandering the Earth until 1957.

--Alaemon has been Prince of Secrets since 1800

--And according to Superiors 4, there's a presistent rumor that Marc engineered the Great Depression in order to break Mammon's power base. Certainly that was when the Prince of Greed dwindled into a minor Superior, with several Princes making a run on the Bank of Hell about the same time.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

Nice! So, does that mean you're interested?

Yes, provisionally. I seem to start online games with the best of intentions and lots of free time, and then real life steals it. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon, but I'm not going to promise that it won't either. Is that okay.

If so, I think that story sounds like an Impudite of the Game (or maybe Secrets) what do you think?

[rudeboyscott]

This is seriously making me drool! I am very interested but often have trouble with the website not refreshing, not letting me post, etc. Would you play here or at another PbP site?

[Acolyte]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yes, provisionally. I seem to start online games with the best of intentions and lots of free time, and then real life steals it. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon, but I'm not going to promise that it won't either. Is that okay.

If so, I think that story sounds like an Impudite of the Game (or maybe Secrets) what do you think?

If I do run a game, I'll probably ask for an email where I can contact the players in case of random activity breaks...but all internet gaming has to take a back seat to real life.

And possibly...but don't go making a PC yet until I even secure permission to run the game and get a website set up.

This is seriously making me drool! I am very interested but often have trouble with the website not refreshing, not letting me post, etc. Would you play here or at another PbP site?

I'm glad you're interested, but I see no reason to run the game off of this website (I don't think anyone needs additional sites to check on daily!). I've never really had any problem with posting/refreshing on this website, though. Maybe you should ask a moderator or something about that! *grin*

--

If the game would be set in the 1930s real-world, would anyone object to a fictional city as the Earthly setting? It's going to take enough research (and watching of old movies!!!) as it is to get the tone/feel of this game right, and it HAS to occur in a large urban area, but I don't feel like doing the necessary exhaustive research to come up with the Tethers and such for a city like NYC or Boston in the 1930s. With a Gotham/Sin City/Metropolis setting, I'm free to simply create Tethers and neighborhoods and such in a way that directly serve the plot and the tone, without any regard to history. However, a lot of the fun of IN comes from playing "in the real world" and if the potential players would be really turned off by gaming in "the City" I would understand. What do you think?

--

Now, I envision the plot of a Noir game something like this:

1. The PCs are brought together (they hang out in the same bar, their Superiors all assign them to Lilith to pay off Geas debts, they've all been friends for years, etc, etc)
2. The PCs are drawn into some kind of mystery but aren't told the whole story (they're to protect someone, or kill someone, or steal something, or guard something, or assigned to watch an event, or whatever)
3. Things don't go according to plan, or they do but the PCs figure out that there's a lot more going on than they originally thought (they may have been deliberately misled, they weren't informed because if you don't know then you can't tell, etc)
4. The "other side" believes the PCs are in on the major plot all the way (and tries to get rid of them/get them to defect, etc)
5. The PCs pick a side of the major plot, and work to accomplish/hinder it (while dodging attacks made by their enemies, switching back and forth between Earth and Hell)
6. The PCs' side succeeds (getting them promoted, shifting their Superiors, whatever) or fails (getting them demoted, killed, shifting their Superiors, etc)

Now, it might seem silly to reveal what the overall plot is, but that's a fairly typical noirplot (I can think of several movies with that base), and I think that's what everyone should know going in. What I am less sure on is how much the potential players and GM should discuss about the "major plot" truth beforehand. While there would be more suspense for the players if they had no idea, the realities of IN make it so that you have to have SOME guidelines for building PCs to make things work--a game about exposing angels to the brutality of humans in an attempt to get a group of them to Fall all at once isn't well served by the presence of a Shedite of Death or a Calabite of Nightmares, generally-speaking. Alternatively, I could reveal nothing of the potential plot and simply hand you a list of possible Word/Band combinations and tell you to choose. In any circumstance, I'd encourage co-creation of PCs (or at least mixed backgrounds) to improve RP and take a VERY active hand in PC generation as a GM. What do you, the potential players, think?

[ladyarcana55]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

If the game would be set in the 1930s real-world, would anyone object to a fictional city as the Earthly setting? It's going to take enough research (and watching of old movies!!!) as it is to get the tone/feel of this game right, and it HAS to occur in a large urban area, but I don't feel like doing the necessary exhaustive research to come up with the Tethers and such for a city like NYC or Boston in the 1930s. With a Gotham/Sin City/Metropolis setting, I'm free to simply create Tethers and neighborhoods and such in a way that directly serve the plot and the tone, without any regard to history. However, a lot of the fun of IN comes from playing "in the real world" and if the potential players would be really turned off by gaming in "the City" I would understand. What do you think?

Doesn't matter all that much to me

Originally Posted by Acolyte

In any circumstance, I'd encourage co-creation of PCs (or at least mixed backgrounds) to improve RP and take a VERY active hand in PC generation as a GM. What do you, the potential players, think?

COOLNESS! I have an idea for a character, I just have to run it by you later