[LT] Cannon Damage Question

[Tinman]

On LT.89 the damage of the 42pdr ships gun seem off. (Or it's the 24pdr cannon thats off.)

For the other guns the 18 pdr is 7dx4 (projectile wt: 28), the 24 pdr is 6dx5 (projectile wt: 36), and the 42 pdr is 6dx5 (projectile wt: 60).

How is it that the 42 pdr's ammo does the same damage as the 24? It fires a shot about twice the weight. Shouldn't the 24 be closer in damage to the 18?

As I look at the chart is seems the field guns are pretty equivlent to their ships equvlent. 3-4 pdr, 9-12 pdr, 24 pdr-42 pdr. The 18 pdr alone.
It seems that the 18 and 24 should be equivlent & the 42 pdr in a class of it's own.

Thanks to anyone who can help resolve this quandry.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Tinman

On LT.89 the damage of the 42pdr ships gun seem off. (Or it's the 24pdr cannon thats off.)

For the other guns the 18 pdr is 7dx4 (projectile wt: 28), the 24 pdr is 6dx5 (projectile wt: 36), and the 42 pdr is 6dx5 (projectile wt: 60).

How is it that the 42 pdr's ammo does the same damage as the 24? It fires a shot about twice the weight. Shouldn't the 24 be closer in damage to the 18?

I don't know whether the numbers are correct or not, but remember that damage numbers (particularly with regard to guns of any kind) are best understood as penetration. If the 42 pdr throws its huge ball at a somewhat lower velocity, it could have the same damage rating as a smaller ball. It might cause more harm to a large-but-crunchable target due to the larger-diameter holes, but the system doesn't have wounding codes beyond Huge Piercing, so there's no way to represent that with the normal rules.

[Blood Legend]

We'll call it Mega Piercing, Pi+++!

They called me mad, but who's laughing now!!

Wmauahaz HAHWHaSauahaafh AHMUWAHA PWFWAHHAHAHAHAA!!!

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Blood Legend

We'll call it Mega Piercing, Pi+++!

If you use something like Douglas Cole's hack for varying piercing wounding based on the relative sizes of bullet and target, you basically get that. And situations to make it worthwhile, like shooting up a large TL4-5 warship to which musket balls are pinpricks and small cannonballs are perhaps analogous to .22 LR.

[jacobmuller]

I'd almost assume it was a typo. The stats for the 24lb cannon are very similar to the 42lb ship's gun... Maybe that should be a 24lb ship's gun?

[Tinman]

1) The pi++ vs any other pi is NOT the issue.
The 18 pdr & 24 pdr guns fire similar wt projectiles (28 & 36 lbs ea) yet
the 42 pdr gun fires 60 lbs projectiles & does the exact same damage as the 24 pdr. There is somthing wrong with the damage stats. (I'm beginning to think the 24 should do damage as the 18, insead of the 42 being wrong.

2) @ jacobmuller: I don't think it is a typo because of the diversity of other stats. frex WPS & crew requirements.

[jacobmuller]

yeah, pity. Must be the low comparative velocity as Ulzgoroth said ie the damage is a correct representation of its penetration in GURPS terms.

EDIT see post#11
TQ Ulzgoroth

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Tinman

1) The pi++ vs any other pi is NOT the issue.
The 18 pdr & 24 pdr guns fire similar wt projectiles (28 & 36 lbs ea) yet
the 42 pdr gun fires 60 lbs projectiles & does the exact same damage as the 24 pdr. There is somthing wrong with the damage stats. (I'm beginning to think the 24 should do damage as the 18, insead of the 42 being wrong.

...Okay, I might suggest that you realize that the 42 pdr gun in fact shoots 42 pound projectiles, as the name suggests. Its shots may weigh 60 pounds, but that means 18 pounds of powder and any incidentals to go with the 42-pound ball. This isn't relevant to your problem, it just seems odd.

Secondly, weight of projectile is not a major determinant of damage. Throw a 1 pound cannon ball slow enough and it might only have 3d pi++, which you could get with a heavy pistol hollow-point. There is absolutely no conflict between 'X fires a heavier shot than Y' and 'X does less damage than Y', except in that you might wonder why anyone would choose to use X if they could use Y instead.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

...Okay, I might suggest that you realize that the 42 pdr gun in fact shoots 42 pound projectiles, as the name suggests. Its shots may weigh 60 pounds, but that means 18 pounds of powder and any incidentals to go with the 42-pound ball. This isn't relevant to your problem, it just seems odd.

Secondly, weight of projectile is not a major determinant of damage. Throw a 1 pound cannon ball slow enough and it might only have 3d pi++, which you could get with a heavy pistol hollow-point. There is absolutely no conflict between 'X fires a heavier shot than Y' and 'X does less damage than Y', except in that you might wonder why anyone would choose to use X if they could use Y instead.

OK. so if the 24 pdr field gun and the 42 pdr ships gun do the same damage, why in the world would they ever use the 42 pdrs? you could put in 2x as many 24pdr guns with the almost the same wt and crew requirements. It doeent make any sense. The 3 guns in question 18, 24, & 42 pdr were all in use at the same TL & time piriod. There is just somthing very 'wrong' about the table.

THe whole lower velosity thing dosent make sense either. The ships guns would be able to handle more stress then a field gun (due to heavyer carge & bracing) and if it's infirior or equivlent to a lighter gun why use it?

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Tinman

The 18 pdr & 24 pdr guns fire similar wt projectiles (28 & 36 lbs ea) yet
the 42 pdr gun fires 60 lbs projectiles & does the exact same damage as the 24 pdr. There is somthing wrong with the damage stats.

A quick note about WPS: It includes the shot and powder. The shot itself is (nominally) 42 pounds, with 18 pounds of propellant. The 18 pdr has 10 pounds of powder, the 24 pdr has 12. With the lower relative powder / shot ratio, it may be that the larger gun is not as efficient or high-velocity, which may account for some of the poor performance. I agree that it's odd though.