Flintlock guns

[larsdangly]

I'm polishing up a variety of TFT materials into supplements I will eventually submit for publication through W23 (or some other means of distribution), and one of those will be equipment, including weapons. None of this is really necessary, as the published game has a lot of gear in it already. But, sometimes its jolly to have official lists of things that can be colorful features of a particular setting; so, I suspect others will enjoy it.

The important thing is that any new equipment (particularly things used in combat) fit neatly into the range of capabilities of the 'canon' weapons and armor, and conform to the trade-space of benefits, prerequisites and drawbacks. This is pretty easy to do with most melee weapons and bows, but you have to be careful with gunpowder weapons. Everything from a jug full of black powder a colt .45 is presented in the core book, but the most sophisticated thing it is assumed a PC can just buy is the arquebus — a matchlock gun that packs a lot of punch but is slow and awkward to use. You could conclude that the intention is for the maximum 'tech level' found outside of rare artifacts corresponds to the 16th century.

Flintlock guns are a tricky case: They arise from technological innovations that I would say are within the scope of what a master Mechanician could probably do. And there are plenty of 'setting enrichment' reasons to have them exist in Cidri (this is the sort of gun classic pirates and musketeers would use). But they are also a more powerful technology for personal combat, as they can be transported loaded without the awkwardness of a burning match and then readied and fired pretty quickly. And, they aren't like auto-death machines, but realistically they should pack a punch proportional to other black powder guns.

My feeling is that they add to the game and can be well controlled simply by making them expensive and difficult to track down, and giving them damage attributes that are broadly in line with what can already be achieved by crossbows and other weapons that are part of the core system. But you could argue they cross some sort of line that shouldn't be crossed regarding Cidri's default tech level. What do you think?

[Shadekeep]

Guns weren't popular my campaigns because pretty much everyone loves fantasy weapons and magic. And a world with lightning spells and such would have less utility value for guns than ours (though they would probably be one of the great equalisers for the non-mage against a mage).

Some things that limited the proliferation of guns in my campaign world (besides the lack of interest in them from players) is that they were unreliable, uncommon, and carried a stigma about them - they are a way for the weak, stupid, and cowardly to feel powerful, and are derided for that. Many towns had prohibitions about trafficking in them too, as they were basically reserved solely for the perimeter guards, and were seen as potential tools for assassination in the hands of common folk. Ultimately at the end of the day it was just too costly (in many ways) for guns to be popular, so they only made appearances as odd weapons or city defenses.

Anyway, to circle back to your original inquiry, there's nothing wrong with making a range of options available to GMs. Supplementary material is just that, and each GM will use as much or as little as fits into their game world. One thing to keep in mind is that, on Cidri at least, gunpowder doesn't work quite as it does on Earth (as detailed in the original Advanced Melee). So any guns are likely to be seldom encountered, whatever technology level they operate at. If some version suddenly makes gunpowder as reliable on Cidri as it is on Earth, that would probably spell the end for melee weapons, with every conflict boiling down to guns vs magic. I keep this from happening by allowing defensive magic to be very effective against guns (as compared to swords and such), and by requiring dragon dung as one of the ingredients for gunpowder (as per a comment in the original ITL).

[larsdangly]

I always impose all the canonical constraints on guns: high cost of gunpowder, slow rate to ready an arquebus, high misfire rate, and danger of explosion. My players love them anyway, as they are fun, pack a punch, and have no ST requirement.

[Shadekeep]

That's fine. As long as they remain interesting but not unbalancing, I don't have a problem with them in the game world. I just personally wouldn't introduce any modifications or versions that make them more reliable or commonplace, unless I was going for a Gunslingers versus Spellslingers campaign world (like a kind of magical Wild West setting).

[JLV]

As a historical note, Matchlock and Wheellock guns (in that order) came around before Flintlocks (which were quite a technological advance) did. You might want to consider taking a look at them first. Their rate of failure was considerably higher than Flintlocks, which would be a good way to ensure that your campaign doesn't simply become an arms race in gunpowder based weapons.

[Shadekeep]

I guess another factor is that there is an inherent risk in carrying around anything gunpowder-based in a world where some wizard can call up fire around you in a snap. Bad enough to be set ablaze without having your ordinance adding to the mayhem.

[JLV]

Good point!

[hcobb]

c.f. the original quote.

Originally Posted by Hamlet

Let it work, For ’tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard; and ’t shall go hard But I will delve one yard below their mines And blow them at the moon.

[DrewAstolfi67]

I'm looking forward to your work. I am also writing something, likely just to distribute free as a tribute to the game I loved as a kid. It's a sword and planetish piece based on the milieu my friends and I made in the early 80's.

The ruling city-state in this setting retains a higher level of technology and has a limited number of slugthrowers for its police force. These are equivalent to single shot shotguns. I am really struggling with how to stat them. They are supposed to be overpowered, but I am not sure how overpowered they should be...I've wondered if they should either ignore armor/reduce the effectiveness of armor or just go for higher damage. Or both.

Plus I've always wanted to run a Carribean campaign where I mixed up a bunch of pirates, voodoo sorcerers and Conquistadors. I think your guns might get me closer to that mini-campaign!

[JohnPaulB]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

This is pretty easy to do with most melee weapons and bows, but you have to be careful with gunpowder weapons. Everything from a jug full of black powder a colt .45 is presented in the core book, but the most sophisticated thing it is assumed a PC can just buy is the arquebus — a matchlock gun that packs a lot of punch but is slow and awkward to use. You could conclude that the intention is for the maximum 'tech level' found outside of rare artifacts corresponds to the 16th century.
SNIP
My feeling is that they add to the game and can be well controlled simply by making them expensive and difficult to track down, and giving them damage attributes that are broadly in line with what can already be achieved by crossbows and other weapons that are part of the core system. But you could argue they cross some sort of line that shouldn't be crossed regarding Cidri's default tech level. What do you think?

Hell Yea.
I game with 'lead' figures. There are many of my figures holding arquebuses, flintlocks, pistols and blunderbusses. I want and need stats for them. Some even have ancient looking bazookas, and even small cannons.

When I've got Wizards toting Flamethrower Staffs, Dwarven Plated Great axers and HyperDex Longbowmen, a shopkeeper with a pistol or a goblin troop with flintlocks seems fine with me.

None of the players I've GMd had any problems with having guns in the game. And I never bothered with the microbe/Gunpowder theory. I never implemented it. I figured the Mechanician's guild got with the chemist to figure out how to sanitize those little beasties.

But then again, I played with 40+ point figures to compensate for the plate and talents. Now I will be able to lower those attributes down some.