Temorary Disadavntage: Electrical

[hal]

Hello Folks,
In an effort to read the rules for cybernetics with a fine tooth comb, I had to wonder at this:

"Your body contains unshielded electronics, or relies on electrical power for its vital energy."

I'm going to have to ask for an opinion on this one simply because of the wording involved...

Unshielded electronics implies that there are two states of electronics. One is shielded, the other is not shielded (hence the "un" in the root of the word). Logic when used with the word "or" implies that you can have option A as one option. Option B is another option - generally speaking, they are mutually exclusive. Having one precludes the other, and vice versa.

But the question becomes one of "Vital energy". Are we talking about Robots that require energy just to function?

I'm guessing based on the wording then, that any electronics device that is designed to be shielded, is immune to surge effects. Is that the take of others as well?

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by hal

I'm guessing based on the wording then, that any electronics device that is designed to be shielded, is immune to surge effects. Is that the take of others as well?

I'm not sure what you are looking for here. Yes if your device uses electricity for something but is invulnerable to the special effects of electrical surge attacks, you can't take Electrical on it. If your device doesn't use electricity at all and somehow is vulnerable anyway because, I don't know, maybe it's cursed by the God of Lightning, you should.

If the issue is can you be a robot and not take Electrical, that's a world building decision. On the whole shielding is realistically fairly simple for things that aren't sensors or communications systems, but not necessarily cheap.

[Ulzgoroth]

Don't stop reading at the first sentence. What Electrical does is rather clearly described.

You're allowed to make a character that's nominally electrical but lacks the Disadvantage if you want to and allowed by the GM. They'd be generally immune to any sort of attacks reliant on their electrical nature.


I suspect the reason in the first sentence for the 'or' is to indicate two distinct ways to be susceptible to electrical attacks: either by being fundamentally an electrical device ("relies on electrical power for its vital energy") or by containing electrical parts which when malfunctioning can entirely incapacitate you despite your core physiology being something else ("contains unshielded electronics").

Of course, Temporary Disadvantage (Electrical) is commonly or even usually used to mean a partial Disadvantage where rather than the Advantage making you vulnerable while in use, the Advantage itself is vulnerable as an electric device...

[hal]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I'm not sure what you are looking for here. Yes if your device uses electricity for something but is invulnerable to the special effects of electrical surge attacks, you can't take Electrical on it. If your device doesn't use electricity at all and somehow is vulnerable anyway because, I don't know, maybe it's cursed by the God of Lightning, you should.

If the issue is can you be a robot and not take Electrical, that's a world building decision. On the whole shielding is realistically fairly simple for things that aren't sensors or communications systems, but not necessarily cheap.

I was looking to try and figure out precisely what you're laying out...

Robots by their nature, require electricity to function. I'm not worried about "world building decisions" so much as "realism" and "intent of the rules" per se.

For instance: Can one build a cybernetic eye that is unshielded, and thus bound by the rules for temporary disadvantage: Electrical, versus a cybernetic eye that is shielded (and exempt from surge attacks) or is it because it is electrical at all - that it must be included? The "Vital Energy" aspect of the "or" wording makes me wonder what precisely was intended.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by hal

Robots by their nature, require electricity to function. I'm not worried about "world building decisions" so much as "realism" and "intent of the rules" per se.

"Realism" is a world building decision.

"Intent of the rules" is not "realism". It's game mechanics. Hal, you've been around long enough to know that.

[Flyndaran]

Electrical is the only way to make something Immune to Metabolic Hazards vulnerable to Radiation. I'm not sure how to recreate that on its own.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by hal

I was looking to try and figure out precisely what you're laying out...

Robots by their nature, require electricity to function. I'm not worried about "world building decisions" so much as "realism" and "intent of the rules" per se.

For instance: Can one build a cybernetic eye that is unshielded, and thus bound by the rules for temporary disadvantage: Electrical, versus a cybernetic eye that is shielded (and exempt from surge attacks) or is it because it is electrical at all - that it must be included? The "Vital Energy" aspect of the "or" wording makes me wonder what precisely was intended.

The "or" part refers to entities who are not cybernetic at all, but are strangely vulnerable to electrical disruption anyway. For example, a cloud of sentient gasses held together with electromagnetism, or a superhero with electric powers that can be shorted out with a pulse,

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Bruno

"Realism" is a world building decision.

"Intent of the rules" is not "realism". It's game mechanics. Hal, you've been around long enough to know that.

Not realism, for the most part, but internally consistent for world building.
Also I always interpreted that "or" as an "and/or", because it seems silly otherwise.
Running electricity can be stopped by tech/magic/etc. Surge effects. Electrical "vitality" can be stopped, and is a bit different than the first thing I mentioned.
If something is resistant to Surge effects, then one can simply buy Resistant: Surge. This, effectively, reduces the points given back for Electrical. Most worlds, I can imagine, with Electrical PCs will have other in-routes to harm than just Bzzzzts! via Surge.
Also even the best shielding can fail on its own or with help like via an otherwise not too injurious hole.

[hal]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Not realism, for the most part, but internally consistent for world building.
Also I always interpreted that "or" as an "and/or", because it seems silly otherwise.
Running electricity can be stopped by tech/magic/etc. Surge effects. Electrical "vitality" can be stopped, and is a bit different than the first thing I mentioned.
If something is resistant to Surge effects, then one can simply buy Resistant: Surge. This, effectively, reduces the points given back for Electrical. Most worlds, I can imagine, with Electrical PCs will have other in-routes to harm than just Bzzzzts! via Surge.
Also even the best shielding can fail on its own or with help like via an otherwise not too injurious hole.

Which implies that it should almost be a bonus roll to HT rather than a straight binary result of "Yes/No" as far as immunity to surge.

What I'm looking to do is find alternative LEGAL (aka RAW) methods for computing the various costs involved with cybernetic Devices.

Just as when I compared the rules for Possession in GURPS Classic to GURPS 4e, and found that they were not 100% compatible, it appears that the cybernetics of GURPS Classic aren't 100% compatible either. No biggie per se, but if I'm going to try and work on a GCA file with the builds for my own campaign, I should at least try for RAW where I can.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by hal

What I'm looking to do is find alternative LEGAL (aka RAW) methods for computing the various costs involved with cybernetic Devices.

That's great, GURPS thrives on customization. It's really not clear what your actual goal is, though.

What do you need them to do that they don't do now? What do you need them to stop doing?

Or do you just want them to do the same thing, but via different mechanics because you don't like the current ones?