What weapon(s) does Weapon Master (One Specific Weapon) cover?

[Gurps Fan]

In this thread, Kromm clarified the fact that Weapon Master (One Specific Weapon) [20] actually covers one specific group of weapons, not one specific entry in the Weapon Table. This was rather surprising to me (because I was under the impression that WM (One Specific Weapon) gives a mastery over one specific Weapon Table entry), but it's OK.

As a result -- for instance -- WM (One Specific Weapon: Broadsword) [20] covers "anything named 'broadsword'" and "any balanced, Reach 1 weapon capable of swing cutting damage that's covered by the Broadsword skill: cavalry saber, backsword, etc.", not just broadsword as listed in the Weapon Table, according to Kromm.

Then, here are my questions:

1. 1. What weapons does WM (One Specific Weapon: Katana) [20] cover? Does it include any balanced, Reach 1 or 2 weapon capable of swing cutting damage that's covered by Broadsword or Two-Handed Sword skill?
   
   
2. 2. What weapons does WM (Two Weapons Normally Used Together: Katana and Wakizashi) [25] cover? Does it include any balanced, Reach 1 weapon capable of swing cutting damage that's covered by Shortsword skill, in addition to all the weapons encompassed WM (One Specific Weapon: Katana)?

[Jeminai]

I recently asked this question and got a totally different response from the Forums. My question was; if a person wants to be a WM with a Bastard Sword, do they need to pick up WM for Broadsword and 2-Handed sword to use both forms of the sword with WM bonuses.

The resounding answer was "no". A WM is for one specific weapon and gives you the bonuses in any way it is used, regardless of skill.

If Kromm says different though...?

[Humabout]

WM (One Specific Weapon: Katana) covers broadsword and two-handed sword when wielding a katana. And the specific one (standard or late katana from MA) that you select. It covers all skills used with said katana, but only when wielding said katana.

WM (Two Specific Weapons: Katana & Wakazashi) covers katana (as described above) and shortsword when wielding a wakazashi.

Note that when specific weapons are called for in skill, technique, and perk descriptions, they mean specific weapons - e.g. glaives, guisarmes, late katana, claymore, zweihander, bastard sword, etc. Or so the trend certain appears to be at this time.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Humabout

WM (One Specific Weapon: Katana) covers broadsword and two-handed sword when wielding a katana. And the specific one (standard or late katana from MA) that you select. It covers all skills used with said katana, but only when wielding said katana.

WM (Two Specific Weapons: Katana & Wakazashi) covers katana (as described above) and shortsword when wielding a wakazashi.

Note that when specific weapons are called for in skill, technique, and perk descriptions, they mean specific weapons - e.g. glaives, guisarmes, late katana, claymore, zweihander, bastard sword, etc. Or so the trend certain appears to be at this time.

Not if you read Kromm's post in the thread linked by the OP.

I don't think it's been explicitly said that WM:Katana includes the Late Katana, but it has definitely been said that 'one weapon' can be broader than you're implying.

[Humabout]

I stand corrected.

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

1. What weapons does WM (One Specific Weapon: Katana) [20] cover? Does it include any balanced, Reach 1 or 2 weapon capable of swing cutting damage that's covered by Broadsword or Two-Handed Sword skill?

Firstly, Kromm was saying that as a GM it was what he would allow. Which to me says he was wearing his GM hat and not his Line Editor. Still, lets have a look at your question.

Firstly, Katana is obviously covered. Late Katana, and the Katana from High Tech (its stats are closer to Late Katana) can probably also be covered, despite both of them being Reach 1.

Now some things that aren't covered: Bastard Sword (1h) since its parry is 0U, Broadsword since it is only reach 1, Hook Sword because it has a swing cr not cut.

Continuing on with the exclusion, the following would seem to be permissible:
Jian, Longsword, Edged Rapier, Bastard Sword (2h), Greatsword, T. Bastard Sword(2h), T. Greatsword.

That's a total of about 10 weapons, out of about 20 swords under those two skills. Now if you start being picky, you could drop the Jian, Longsword, Edged Rapier Greatsword and the T. Greatsword due to having a different min ST. You could instead drop it down to just the Longsword, Bastard Sword (2h) and T. Bastard Sword (2h) by enforcing it to be Broadsword and Two-Handed Sword skills, and from that you could even drop the Bastard Sword if you were feeling strict enough.

Overall though, from following the discussion, any of those could apply since the watchword is GM's choice. You have an absolute minimum of one specific weapon (Bastard Sword), a median of weapons that share names (Small Knife, Large Knife, Long Knife) and a maximum of less than a group.

To me a group is definitely a collection of 10+ weapons, and I'm wary of anything larger than 5. Now I would definitely go as far as dropping weapons with different min ST, leaving: Katana, Late Katana, Bastard Sword (2h), and T. Bastard Sword (2h).

2. What weapons does WM (Two Weapons Normally Used Together: Katana and Wakizashi) [25] cover? Does it include any balanced, Reach 1 weapon capable of swing cutting damage that's covered by Shortsword skill, in addition to all the weapons encompassed WM (One Specific Weapon: Katana)?

Applying similar logic to a Shortsword:
Drop the Falchion due to it having a different min ST, the Cutlass and Large Katar due to having additional Notes, and the Large Knife because it can do Reach C as well will leave you with just the Small Fachion.

Now of course you could not be as strict, and personally I see no issue with setting the min ST difference at a minimum of 2. But still, I'll reiterate, this seems to me to be pretty much in the area of GM's discretion on how far one weapon will go. After all, it is a cinematic ability.

[Phantasm]

I think I'd go with a different set of included weapons.

What is a Katana? It's a "slightly curved single-edged sword designed for one- or two-handed use". (MA217)

Stat-wise, one-handed use gives +1 to both sw and thr damage; Reach 1, 2 when swung, Reach 1 when thrust, no penalty to Parry, and a MinST of 11; two-handed use has a Min ST of 10, and +2 to sw damage (still +1 to thr damage). It weighs 5 pounds. (B271, B274) The Late Katana is a Reach 1 sword only, with MinST lowered by 1, and 2 lbs lighter. (MA227, MA230)

Weapon Master: Katana, would be skilled in both of those weapons.

I'd include any sword that used the Cavalry Saber stats to fall under "Katana", as its description and stat-block are identical to the one-handed use of the Late Katana. (Compare the Cavalry Saber's stats on B271 with the Late Katana stats on MA227.) This includes any weapon classified as a "scimitar". I would not allow any of the straight swords to benefit from it.

Just my $0.05 worth.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

2. What weapons does WM (Two Weapons Normally Used Together: Katana and Wakizashi) [25] cover? Does it include any balanced, Reach 1 weapon capable of swing cutting damage that's covered by Shortsword skill, in addition to all the weapons encompassed WM (One Specific Weapon: Katana)?

Martial Arts classifies a Wakizashi as a "curved Shortsword" (with "Shortsword" in small caps). This tells me the Wakizashi uses the Shortsword stats, but has a slight curve to it, same as the Katana does. I really can't think of any sword that fits that description other than the Wakizashi, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

Based on my earlier post, "Weapon Master: Katana and Wakizashi" would cover any of the swords used one-handed that fall under Katana (in short, any curved sword wielded one-handed that uses Katana or Cavalry Saber stats) and any curved sword that uses the Shortsword stats wielded in the off hand.

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

I really can't think of any sword that fits that description other than the Wakizashi, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

How about a big enough Bowie Knife?

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Dinadon

Firstly, Kromm was saying that as a GM it was what he would allow. Which to me says he was wearing his GM hat and not his Line Editor. Still, lets have a look at your question.

Firstly, Katana is obviously covered. Late Katana, and the Katana from High Tech (its stats are closer to Late Katana) can probably also be covered, despite both of them being Reach 1.

So WM[Broadsword] should cover longswords too even though they have that extra reach on thrust?


I would be stricter than that.

The other thing is that really few historic areas really should have all that much diversity in swords. There tend to be only a few different swords being used at the same time.