What are practical uses for Erotic Art?

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by Xplo

(Aside: If you can't describe what a skill does in the book because the skill is too naughty for your audience, maybe it shouldn't be in there at all?)

Absolutely agreed. Hell, even Fire Eating has a longer description than Erotic Art. By the way, the skill seems to be knowledge, despite being a primarily DX based skill.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Absolutely agreed. Hell, even Fire Eating has a longer description than Erotic Art. By the way, the skill seems to be knowledge, despite being a primarily DX based skill.

There is still a strong coordination component to it though.
I know a couple of fire eaters and most, if not all have swallowed or inhaled when they shouldn't have at least once.

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by Refplace

There is still a strong coordination component to it though.
I know a couple of fire eaters and most, if not all have swallowed or inhaled when they shouldn't have at least once.

The second sentence refers to Erotic Art.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

The second sentence refers to Erotic Art.

And you don't think people sometimes swallow or inhale at inappropriate times when practicing erotic art?

[davidtmoore]

Originally Posted by Xplo

It seems that we still have no definitive answer to what this skill is.

In the post referenced upthread, Kromm says "It specifically is about difficult physical acts and positions from sex manuals and porno movies". This makes it sound like it's really just a subset of Performance or Acrobatics that isn't good for anything other than demonstrating the Kama Sutra (etc). Essentially, unless tantric magic or something similar exist, it's really just a weird hobby, and probably not even worth points.

But, before that, he says "Erotic Art is to their profession as Acrobatics and Judo Sport are to those of circus acrobats and Olympic judoka: DX/H job skills." But prostitutes don't, generally speaking, specialize in difficult physical acts and positions from sex manuals and porno movies, and the ones who do do so out of personal curiosity or a desire to cater to a certain kind of client, not because it automatically makes the sex better.

Then he agrees with a list of suggested uses for the skill that suggest that the skill makes you good at giving sexual pleasure, to the point of rendering a total stranger distracted, helpless, or even subservient with relative ease.

Which is it? Does anyone actually know?

It seems that the skill is nothing more than a placeholder for some kind of hypothetical Sex skill that you might want in your game - y'know, if you're mature enough for that sort of thing - and anyone allowing this skill in their game needs to have a conversation with anyone taking it to suss out what the skill actually does and what it's useful for, because the book is intentionally vague, different players have different interpretations that could easily lead to assumption clash, and even the Line Editor can't provide a clear, consistent answer.

(Aside: If you can't describe what a skill does in the book because the skill is too naughty for your audience, maybe it shouldn't be in there at all?)

All of the above.

Erotic Art is the practical skill of sexual technique. It covers adventurousness, variety, adaptability, experience, and sheer competence at achieving, heightening and suspending sexual sensation and climax in a range of situations and with a variety of partners.

It is not necessary in a loving or long-term relationship (where attentiveness, willingness to please and emotional context will provide much of what is pursued) or to be a porn star or prostitute (where many of the sexual tasks expected of one are routine and unvarying), but can clearly be of benefit in both circumstances.

It is valuable for someone who is likely to want to reliably and accurately achieve certain practical results from sexual technique. Examples include high-cost call girls/boys who are expected to provide a service superior to that provided by their peers; tantric magicians and ecstatic mystics who require heightened sexual sensation to achieve certain mental or spiritual states; and spies or other manipulators who hope to use sexual contact to influence someone's behaviour.

And, I tend to accept that it's a useful skill for a completist system (where some characters will, if only for background purposes, need to be adept at sexual technique), and that it doesn't need to be embellished at great depth.

If you feel that there's too much ambiguity, and that there needs to be a distinction between (for instance) Acrobatics (Sexual), Professional Skill (Prostitute), Professional Skill (Porn Star) and Sexual Technique, then good on you. I feel that's probably more sex than a role-playing game needs. Aside from F.A.T.A.L., of course.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Hell, even Fire Eating has a longer description than Erotic Art.

Hopefully for obvious reasons: GURPS is a G-rated game. Anybody waiting for a detailed write-up of Erotic Art is in for a long wait. As others have guessed, it's basically the generic "Sex" skill that covers all plot-related uses of sex. Just as an action hero never merely punches somebody with DX but has Karate and uses it to deliver a spinning back kick, and just as he never merely drives away sedately with his DX-5 default at +10 for a Sunday drive but uses Driving to leap an improvised ramp at 140 mph . . . well, the protagonist in a heroic story never merely "has sex" but does something improbable that requires Erotic Art. The difference is that while we can give you entire books on martial arts or vehicular stunts, marital arts and bedroom stunts must be left to the imagination. Games with detailed rules for sex have a long tradition of drawing ire from both inside and outside the gaming community.

Thus, name-dropping the skill and running away as fast as possible is as good as it's going to get in the published work. Those who have some inkling as to possible uses and who feel ready to deal with the skill can use their imagination. Those who see it as a waste of points are people who lack the necessary imagination, have a strong likelihood of being inexperienced at the activities in question, and by extension have a higher chance of being easily offended by them. It's a self-correcting "problem." Yes, I realize that there are people who are open to detailed info on how to use sex in a dramatic plot but who are fresh out of ideas as to how, but it isn't GURPS' place to handle that; there's an entire section in your local video store that should help with that.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Gabriella

I think that it would depend on the margin of success of the Erotic Arts roll verus's the Guard being so assault-ed's willpower, so not really making it an affliction. After all Mata Hari had no super powers and was considered one of the best spy/seductress's of all time.

By whom?

She's probably the most famous spy in history.

Think about that for a while. In a profession where anymonity is a job requirement, she is the most famous example.

She was a adventurous girl who had expensive tastes and few prospects of fulfilling them. So she lied, she danced, she flirted and she [censor].

She may or may not have spied for the Germans. If she did, her information was more rumours than fact, probably about as valuable as reading a gossip column in the local papers. In any case, she was not so valuable to them that they hesitated to intentionally inform the Entente powers of this. She claimed to spy for the French, as well, but given that she also claimed to be an Indian princess*, this claim was doubted both at the time and by later historians.

In movies and popular culture, yes, she is the archtypical femme fatale superspy. Played by Greta Garbo, as I recall. But movies and reality are long-estranged and have a nodding acquintanceship at most.

*She was born Margrathe Zelle, the daughter of a Dutch a hatmaker, and her (unifinished) professional qualifications were as a kindergarten teacher.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Those who see it as a waste of points are people who lack the necessary imagination, have a strong likelihood of being inexperienced at the activities in question, and by extension have a higher chance of being easily offended by them.

...
<sinks a little lower in the seat>

heh

Seriously, what kind of description would you expect?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Icelander

In movies and popular culture

Which is, more so than reality, what games are about. How many real-world people spend hundreds of hours learning/practicing sexual acts to perfect them as a skill for use in do-or-die adventure situations? Damned few. Yet fiction is full of them. This skill exists mainly for such fictional adventurers. That doesn't make it inherently unrealistic, but it does make some of the uses gamers will expect from it a little larger-than-life . . . much as how gamers expect to use Rapier to stab people in the vitals regardless of how their enemy's body is turned, or how they expect Electronics Repair (Security) to work like in the movies, where you just whack the case off an alarm and cross the wires.

Personally, I'd let victory in a Quick Contest of Erotic Art vs. Will function about as well as any other deception or distraction. I'd even let it be a tad more complete and airtight, since it involves the hero taking a direct personal risk, and I'm a believer in ***-for-tat trades. If somebody is willing to risk intimate physical contact with a stranger who's a potentially violent enemy, a possible rapist, a disease-carrier, or just filthy, then I'm willing to match the reward to the risk.

[Ubiquitous]

Alright, so here's a poser;

What'd be so penalizing that you'd need anything about 10-Skill in Erotic Art (since 10'd be a good base for the bonuses for Extra Time Taken and one'd imagine some All-Out Maneuvers).

Skill 14 would represent someone impressively versed but what'd the game-purpose for this be? Other just than being that good.

EDIT: A totally satisfying answer to this would be 'to ward off penalties during combat'