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Old 06-01-2012, 05:48 PM   #1
Finalsora811
 
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Default TL4 Poker Chips

I'm attempting to make a gambler and I was wondering 2 things.

1. Would they have had Poker Chips back then? If so, would they have been the same as ours?

2. Would they have had Casinos back then?
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:54 PM   #2
sir_pudding
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Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

In the historical European Renaissance? Neither existed, as far I know. I've got some books on gaming in that period. Poker itself didn't exist, but an earlier version (which is quite fun) called Primero did.

What's really interesting (to me, anyway) are many period dice games, which lack a modern understanding of classical probability and therefore are often "rigged" unintentionally.

I have no idea if single purpose casinos (as opposed to gaming halls in other establishments) or gambling tokens existed in China or elsewhere, though.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Considering that the game of poker didn't come into existence until the mid-18th century (at least that's what Wikipedia says), I'd be surprised if poker chips existed before then. It's more likely people would be using actual coins instead of tokens that represent coins.

However, at least one casino existed in TL4: Il Ridotto. (Again, according to Wikipedia)
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finalsora811 View Post
1. Would they have had Poker Chips back then? If so, would they have been the same as ours?
I don't think so - they could use just ordinary coins which were valuable enough and of similar size. Any tokens except wooden ones, maybe, would be too expensive to use.
Quote:
2. Would they have had Casinos back then?
Certainly. There were gambling houses millenia B.C. (actually, the Chinese recorded the first official account of the practice in 2300 BC).
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Gambling chips did not exist until the early or mid 19th century but casinos did exist back then as a type of hotel. The gambling room(s) were an attraction of the hotel and perhaps what made them different from a hotel. Of course I am, as often the cse, going off of old memories here. But I remember reading about the Renaissance in Italy and this was a point made. Casinos were an invention in Italy as a development of the hotel during that time frame.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
Certainly. There were gambling houses millenia B.C. (actually, the Chinese recorded the first official account of the practice in 2300 BC).
I guess it really depends on how you define "casino". The modern casino where "the house always wins" really requires TL5 statistics, I'd think.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:02 PM   #7
Turhan's Bey Company
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Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finalsora811 View Post
I'm attempting to make a gambler and I was wondering 2 things.

1. Would they have had Poker Chips back then? If so, would they have been the same as ours?

2. Would they have had Casinos back then?
Poker chips as such weren't invented until the 18th or 19th century, making them TL5. However, tokens used as markers for games and quite possibly gambling, which can be though are not necessarily coin-like, go back to the Romans. Dedicated gambling houses are of similar vintage. They're a matter of economics more than technology.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

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Although the first gambling house was legalised in Venice in 1626, actual poker chips as we now know them were still not used for over two hundred more years. Back in the 19th century and prior, poker players seemed to use any small valuable object imaginable. Early poker players sometimes used jagged gold pieces, gold nuggets, gold dust, or coins as well as "chips" primarily made of ivory, bone, wood, paper, and a composition made from clay and shellac.
thats wikipedia on "casino token".

my guess is that tokens are a result of moving to paper money. The players might have thought the game didn't feel right without "coins". It also could have something to do with the incredible economic mess of the early west.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:49 PM   #9
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
. Dedicated gambling houses are of similar vintage. They're a matter of economics more than technology.
Yes, a few farmers gambling agsinst each other could probably bet sheep but a real casino needs to rake in hard money.

They also need a large enough profit margin to cover the overhead on their facility and staffing. This tends to require a significant number of persons with disposable income in their pockets to make up the customer base.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: TL4 Poker Chips

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I guess it really depends on how you define "casino". The modern casino where "the house always wins" really requires TL5 statistics, I'd think.
No, it just requires keeping track of those games where the house wins. You need statistics to determine ahead of time what the odds are, but bookkeeping and time are sufficient to identify winning patterns.
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