Sorcery Techniques for Hard Core Improvization

[rkbrown419]

Page 7 of Thaumatology Sorcery has rules for attempting to improvise spellcasting if a spell's point cost is greater than the characters levels in Sorcerous Empowerment but less than the points put into the advantage. The attempt requires a roll vs Will+Talent or a Will based Thaumatology roll at penalties that increase as the spells cost approaches the cost of the Sorcerous Empowerment advantage. Would it unbalance things to allow a character to use a Hard Technique to offset the penalty? Obviously, you couldn't create a generic list of Techniques for the spells as the penalty is dependent on the points into the Sorcery advantage and the maximum level for the Technique would be the cost of the spell as a learned spell. An advantage of this would be the ability for a character to learn spells in a way that permits gradual improvement over time.
So, playable idea or will it unbalance the Sorcery system?

[Varyon]

My own inclination would be to divorce this from the Technique system and instead divide the cost of the Spell as a Known Spell from 10; every [1] invested in that spell negates this amount of penalty. So for a Spell with a full value of [25] and thus a value of [5] as a Known Spell, every [1] negates up to -2 of the penalty. One with a full value of [50], and thus [10] as a Known Spell, would have every [1] negate -1. And so forth. Honestly it would probably be alright to make this a bonus, as that extra FP and Will roll aren't even necessary when it's a Known Spell.

[pawsplay]

It's already a zero-cost enhancement on the whole sorcery shebang, proposed for playability and storytelling reasons. I think offering such a technique might, indeed, be unbalancing.

[Silverblade]

Extra Will is [5]. Extra Will (-xx%, Limitation: only for Hardcore Improvisation) would make it even cheaper (not sure by how much), plus you wouldn't have the bookkeeping on various techniques.

I think Sorcery techniques would make it more complicated, and even more expensive in the long run....

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

It's already a zero-cost enhancement on the whole sorcery shebang, proposed for playability and storytelling reasons. I think offering such a technique might, indeed, be unbalancing.

I've always been under the assumption the Hardcore Improvisation rules were basically just an application of Godlike Extra Effort from GURPS Powers, perhaps with a few tweaks for ease of use, but haven't ever really done a proper analysis of it.

Originally Posted by Silverblade

Extra Will is [5]. Extra Will (-xx%, Limitation: only for Hardcore Improvisation) would make it even cheaper (not sure by how much), plus you wouldn't have the bookkeeping on various techniques.

I think Sorcery techniques would make it more complicated, and even more expensive in the long run....

I would think of such "Techniques" as essentially a way to gradually buy the spell as a Known Spell, making it easier to "improvise" as you go until you have invested enough to actually just outright know it and can cast it without issue. I'd personally be inclined to eyeball Hardcore Improvisation Only as a -40% Limitation on Will, so that would be [3]/level. A generalist may often be better off investing in such a trait, but it still seems like there would be room for at least one "Partially-Known Spell" that you're in the process of making a Known Spell.

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I've always been under the assumption the Hardcore Improvisation rules were basically just an application of Godlike Extra Effort from GURPS Powers, perhaps with a few tweaks for ease of use, but haven't ever really done a proper analysis of it.

Yes, in form, but Extra Effort doesn't normally let you create a new Alternate Effect. It's allowed for Sorcery because you already have your little improvised spells, and you already have a lot of alternate effects. So the aggregate value isn't huge, but it is a freebie.

[Silverblade]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I've always been under the assumption the Hardcore Improvisation rules were basically just an application of Godlike Extra Effort from GURPS Powers, perhaps with a few tweaks for ease of use, but haven't ever really done a proper analysis of it.

The author (Sorry I forgot his name - Raven picture? Rice?*) said it was just "Using Abilities at Default" from Powers, p. 173.

*It was Jason "PK" Levine.

Edit again - Levine wrote Sorcery, but the question was indeed answered by Rice:

https://forums.sjgames.com/showpost....11&postcount=2

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Silverblade

Extra Will is [5]. Extra Will (-xx%, Limitation: only for Hardcore Improvisation) would make it even cheaper (not sure by how much), plus you wouldn't have the bookkeeping on various techniques.

I think Sorcery techniques would make it more complicated, and even more expensive in the long run....

As I understand it, the OP is planning to have the points in the technique go towards the spell in question when it's learned, so this won't increase the cost. It's just giving some bonuses for having a spell partly paid for. As this means the points have been committed (rather than being in the not-spent pool, and thus available for anything that might come up), I don't think it'll be very unbalancing.

[pawsplay]

Well, in my view, it's the risk and effort that make that kind of thing (somewhat) balanced in the first place. It's already advantageous toward characters with broad power concepts. Captain Fireball might be able to "default" fire powers, but a sorcerer can do a lot of things. As I said before, this imbalance is mainly mitigated by sorcerers already paying for a lot of flexibility.