|
05-02-2014, 05:03 AM | #1 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2012
|
[RPM] Altered Traits
I had thought that Altered Traits was basically "if the other categories don't cover it, build it as an advantage", but that's pretty definitely not the case. For instance, Intercom (T:RPM 45) is just the Sense+Duration+Range costs, and doesn't include Telecommunication for both, which would likely more than double the cost. Yet Mantle of Glory is a Greater Strengthen effect in addition to the 60 points for Terror.
In the Transmogrification thread, Ghostdancer said that Altered Traits is about whether control of the ability is part of casting or given to the subject: Quote:
Quote:
Basically, I don't understand what needs Altered Traits and what I can do (significantly more cheaply) just by effects.
__________________
Characters Astrid 14/14HP, 3/10FP buffs Jorin 13/13, 9/10, 0/1 ER, 24/24, 3/6, 6/6, 6/6, 6/6 Rings, 6 days since last use of WT |
||
05-02-2014, 09:17 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
|
Re: [RPM] Altered Traits
Quote:
__________________
My Twitter My w23 Stuff My Blog Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library Become a Patron! |
|
05-02-2014, 01:05 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
|
Re: [RPM] Altered Traits
It's an art, not a science -- the "correct" answer will always be up to the GM. No exceptions.
I find this one question is key: When I describe what this spell does, do I find myself referencing specific GURPS advantages and/or disadvantages that the subject gains? In my opinion, Haste can only be meaningfully phrased as "The subject gains ATR 1" or some combination of words that effectively mean the same thing. So it has Altered Traits. But Intercom seems best described as "The subjects can hear each other's thoughts." So it doesn't. If you think it should, and you're the GM, then you're right and now it requires it.
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ) MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.
#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more! {Watch Video} - {Read Transcript} |
05-02-2014, 03:06 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Mar 2012
|
Re: [RPM] Altered Traits
Well, you're right that that's not a science. Distressingly so. It seems that if I was the GM, there'd be few, if any, spells that were just Effects, since there are few things that can't be built with the spell modifiers and advantages and I guess I tend to think in those terms more than not.
Also, I'm curious. Haste (T:RPM 44) uses the Altered Traits spell modifier to give the target +1.00 Basic Speed for 20 energy. Is that necessary to allow the subject to control the movement, as Ghostdancer pointed out, or could that spell also have used the Speed spell modifier to give the target a static B.S. of 10 for 4 energy? Or perhaps that merely gives a Basic Move of 10 and you should also add a +2 to Dodge for another 4 energy?
__________________
Characters Astrid 14/14HP, 3/10FP buffs Jorin 13/13, 9/10, 0/1 ER, 24/24, 3/6, 6/6, 6/6, 6/6 Rings, 6 days since last use of WT |
05-02-2014, 03:35 PM | #5 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
|
Re: [RPM] Altered Traits
Quote:
Quote:
Nope, you're boosting someone in a manner that doesn't require the caster to concentrate on it. Using the flying example above, you'd need to take Concentrate maneuvers for Greater Control Body to "TK" someone around, whereas if you gave Altered Traits, Flight you don't (and it's under there control).
__________________
My Twitter My w23 Stuff My Blog Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library Become a Patron! |
||
05-02-2014, 03:39 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Mar 2012
|
Re: [RPM] Altered Traits
Quote:
On that note, would it be possible for the caster to increase their own Basic Move that way?
__________________
Characters Astrid 14/14HP, 3/10FP buffs Jorin 13/13, 9/10, 0/1 ER, 24/24, 3/6, 6/6, 6/6, 6/6 Rings, 6 days since last use of WT |
|
02-25-2018, 09:53 PM | #7 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2017
|
Re: [RPM] Altered Traits
Quote:
One of the best things of RPM is that it at least tries to have some "logic'' + ''game balance'' inside the system, at least in my opinion. The way that the rules work makes some stupid things that are possible in Mage: the Ascension became impossible in RPM, like opening a gate to the sun or to a black hole. The range modifier makes this nearly impossible in a fair way. This is important because the setting need a explanation of why a crazy suicide style mage dont destroy the world with a ritual (in ascension the technocracy is the ''god machine'' of the GM who saves the setting no matter how ridiculous this can be). That said, I think that RPM can receive more "game-balancing" from PK in a Pyramid Article or even with the a "RPM Companion" sugestion. About your reply: 1. By the rules the mage have control of the spell even without using altered traits. The only way to lose the control of the spell is making a Charm, the caster can even "auto dispell" the ritual if it is not a charm. Plus, concetration isnt a way to make a 12 hour ritual cheap, if you want more than momentany duration then pay the energy. Quote:
2. About Mind Control, I think that is completely game breaking alowing Mind Control without Altered Traits. Slave Mentality and Reprogrammable are too cheap and I would add a limitation about one order/command for "spell effect" to add some game balance, then giving two orders like "buy a ice cream" and "commit suicide" increase the cost to two Greater Control Mind (X 5). Plus, dont make any sense a spell to compel someone to say the Truth need to pay for Compulsive Talking and Truthfulness but one ritual that can kill the subject costing less. That said, the same logic applies with the Transmogrification ritual that need Altered Traits, but I would ask PK if he writted all rituals or maybe this is a small misconception of a collabolator (make sense to me). Last but not least, if anyone want a specific ritual cheaper just allow the caster to buy a leveled perk of ritual mastery. 5 levels of one ritual is cheap and works best than breaking the entire system. Last edited by 4rc4num; 02-25-2018 at 10:00 PM. |
||
01-21-2021, 03:33 PM | #8 | |||||
Join Date: Feb 2020
|
Re: [RPM] Altered Traits
Ok, I'm extrapolating here.
Below are three rituals done two ways. The first is one I created, the second CRR created in response to another poster, and the third is from T:RPM. Are my conclusions correct? Shrink Effect under the control of the target. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Invisibility Effect under the control of the target. Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body [8] + Altered Traits: Invisibility [40] + Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3] + Duration: 1 hour [3] Cost: 162 energy (54x3) Effect NOT under the control of the target. Quote:
Body of Shadow Effect under the control of the target. Quote:
Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body [8] + Greater Transform Energy [8] + Duration: 10 minutes [1] + Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3]. Cost: 100 energy (20x5) Is this right? Last edited by X the Unknown; 01-21-2021 at 03:37 PM. |
|||||
01-21-2021, 06:33 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
|
Re: [RPM] Altered Traits
Yeah, that looks right.
__________________
My Twitter My w23 Stuff My Blog Latest GURPS Book: Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Thieves Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library Become a Patron! |
Tags |
ritual path magic, rpm |
|
|