SJG so needs to renew the GURPS Wild Cards license

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Well, going by a career working with real criminals*, most actual people who commit crimes are not anywhere close to movie villains. Anyone even approaching movie levels of criminal intent is going to be worth several thousand real persons in jail.

The Joker, in the Batman setting, is conveniently crazier (while at the same time, more dangerous) than any organised criminal has ever been. Assuming that you accept superheroes in your setting, it's not all that weird to imagine that Jokers would be several orders of magnitude more dangerous than normal criminals.

If they weren't, there would be no need for PCs. There would just be sensible people who called the police.

*I'm a defence attorney.

???

Jokers aren't criminals. (Most of them anyway.)

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Well, going by a career working with real criminals*, most actual people who commit crimes are not anywhere close to movie villains. Anyone even approaching movie levels of criminal intent is going to be worth several thousand real persons in jail.

The Joker, in the Batman setting, is conveniently crazier (while at the same time, more dangerous) than any organised criminal has ever been. Assuming that you accept superheroes in your setting, it's not all that weird to imagine that Jokers would be several orders of magnitude more dangerous than normal criminals.

If they weren't, there would be no need for PCs. There would just be sensible people who called the police.

*I'm a defence attorney.

Most of the real dangerous criminals would be Aces but I can see how the mass mind would take a lot out on Jokers.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

???

Jokers aren't criminals. (Most of them anyway.)

Originally Posted by Refplace

Most of the real dangerous criminals would be Aces but I can see how the mass mind would take a lot out on Jokers.

The vast majority of people are not criminals, just as the overwhelming majority of airline passengers are non-violent and harmless people. That has remarkably little to do with what other people fear from them, especially if they can be perceived as belonging to a minority if you squint.

The actual percentile chance that someone will commit a crime has little to do with the perceived risk from that person. Compare the security around cows and soda dispensers (real risks) to the ridiculous charades carried out over sharks and minorities (popular fake risks) to get an idea of how unimportant actual risk factors are to the way authorities react.

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by Icelander

The Joker, in the Batman setting,

The parent to your post was using the term "Jokers" as defined in the Wild Card series (a human mutated to deformity by virus who does not possess any super human powers). Infected people are classed by playing card ranks.

[dataweaver]

Exactly. I have trouble swallowing the “Jokers as persecuted minority” notion because Jokers aren't so much dangerous they are disabled and disfigured.

[somecallmetim]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Exactly. I have trouble swallowing the “Jokers as persecuted minority” notion because Jokers aren't so much dangerous they are disabled and disfigured.

I have been working on a "mutant superhuman" setting and have been trying come up with plausible reasons for mutants to be feared and hated. My best attempt was makingthe mutating virus a communicable disease with a long latency (making the fear of invisible carriers a source of stress). It kills a majority of the victims and mutates the rest, and it is associated with "undesirables". (The game is set in an alternate 1980s, so this includes drug addicts, homosexuals, sex workers, etc). And just to put a thumb on the scale, a supervillain with control over a government black ops program is attempting to gin up fear of mutants to give him a freer hand in weaponizing or eliminating them as best suits his plans.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Exactly. I have trouble swallowing the “Jokers as persecuted minority” notion because Jokers aren't so much dangerous they are disabled and disfigured.

Pretty sure the way they're being treated is intended to be similar to people with leprosy.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Exactly. I have trouble swallowing the “Jokers as persecuted minority” notion because Jokers aren't so much dangerous they are disabled and disfigured.

A minority doesn't have to be dangerous to be persecuted. Jokers can frequently offend one's senses and can easily inspire fears of contamination. That alone could cause persecution even if you ignore the fact that there are some jokers who are every bit as dangerous as Jack Flash, or Golden Boy while being incapable of leading a normal life. Just a few rampages from Jokers with the qualities of the Thing, The Lizard, Manbat or Atomic Skull would be enough to create grudges to be taken out on the relatively powerless ones. For that matter Croyd Crenson on a bad day wouldn't do wonders for the rep of jokers.

[sn0wball]

Jokers are a constant reminder, that there is an alien virus abound, which can transform YOU into a hideous monster at any time, let alone right out kill you.

Also, one shouldn´t forget that the distinction between ace, deuce and joker is a arbitrary and social one, not a biological one. The prominent example is Peregrine, but also Rustbelt in more recent times.

I think the series does a pretty good job in explaining why things developed the way they are.

[Zarathustra]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Exactly. I have trouble swallowing the “Jokers as persecuted minority” notion because Jokers aren't so much dangerous they are disabled and disfigured.

You do realize that you live in a world in which people are feared and hated for the colour of their skin? It's worse for Jokers, because, as Xavier Desmond pointed out, all Jokers are unique. You can't do the equivalent of a "black is beautiful" type of movement due to Jokers all being a "race" of one.

Also, let's not forget the Card Sharks conspiracy. Those guys didn't help matters.