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Old 10-20-2019, 07:39 PM   #11
Bruno
 
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Default Re: Point value of being unable to learn language above broken/accented

Some forms of Aphasia could be modeled by having even your native languages capped at Accented or Broken.

Some kinds of aphasia and related conditions impact comprehension as much as expression. I can actually even see someone who might be a fluent reader but only accented speaker/listener, if they have acquired brain damage (and probably also a quirk: Slow Reader).

I'm mildly aphasic and I do sometimes joke that "English is my second language, and I don't have a first one" but in reality I have a quirk-level of expressive aphasia (doesn't occur on a 15-) and a multi-media comprehension problem that's a little dyslexia and a little comprehension aphasia and a little noniconographic and a little annoying. It's easy for me to visualize what a more severe problem would look like, and intriguing to play around with how that would look as a disad.

Thinking about it, cinematic "stupid" characters seem to be more characterized by a capped language fluency and a couple of mental disads than anything else.
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Point value of being unable to learn language above broken/accented

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Some forms of Aphasia could be modeled by having even your native languages capped at Accented or Broken.

Some kinds of aphasia and related conditions impact comprehension as much as expression. I can actually even see someone who might be a fluent reader but only accented speaker/listener, if they have acquired brain damage (and probably also a quirk: Slow Reader).

I'm mildly aphasic and I do sometimes joke that "English is my second language, and I don't have a first one" but in reality I have a quirk-level of expressive aphasia (doesn't occur on a 15-) and a multi-media comprehension problem that's a little dyslexia and a little comprehension aphasia and a little noniconographic and a little annoying. It's easy for me to visualize what a more severe problem would look like, and intriguing to play around with how that would look as a disad.
The basic structure is, for example, <Native Language>(Broken)[-4] + Feature: Taboo Trait (No language above Broken) [0]. Though if you want to get fancy you could do stuff with One-Way Fluency or One-Way Literacy.
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: Point value of being unable to learn language above broken/accented

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I would suggest just taking Disturbing Voice; it generally gives similar penalties to what you want, and is usually what cinematic characters who don't speak any language well actually have.
Cinematic ones, perhaps, but Looking at the penalties, it really doesn't line up that well. The trick there is mostly reaction penalties, which don't apply to people who can only speak broken language.

Unless it causes people to assume they're mentally inferior because of it, which is probably a pretty common result. But that will only work for some situations.

As a GM, I might give them a quirk for accepting that particular taboo trait: its an especially nasty one.
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Old 10-21-2019, 01:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Point value of being unable to learn language above broken/accented

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As a GM, I might give them a quirk for accepting that particular taboo trait: its an especially nasty one.
Compare Dyslexia, which is worth -10 points (which I would only give points for in literate societies - it would be a quirk at best in antiquity, unless one was a noble). I would give this a -5 point value if restricted to Accented and -10 points if one was restricted to Broken. That's more generous than Dyslexia, but it is also a much nastier disadvantage.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Point value of being unable to learn language above broken/accented

I see something like what y'all are talking about in DF. Dragon-blooded have a Feature: "Cannot learn non-reptilian languages above Accented level." I think the Taboo Trait proposal is probably on the right track.
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Old 10-22-2019, 11:34 AM   #16
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Default Re: Point value of being unable to learn language above broken/accented

Does "Accented" apply to literacy too? Sounds like something intended for just speaking it, how you pronounce words. How much does pronunciation matter when all you need to do is read/write rather than hear/speak?
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Old 10-22-2019, 02:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Point value of being unable to learn language above broken/accented

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Does "Accented" apply to literacy too? Sounds like something intended for just speaking it, how you pronounce words. How much does pronunciation matter when all you need to do is read/write rather than hear/speak?
It means less than perfect grammar, spelling and sentence structure when you're talking about writing, and it can hamper communication or limit how much they can influence others. And they kind of mistakes a writer makes can possibly indicate what their native language is, which is what an accent does.

There's probably a better word than "accented" though, which in everyday English does just describe someone's speech patterns.
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Old 10-22-2019, 02:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: Point value of being unable to learn language above broken/accented

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Does "Accented" apply to literacy too? Sounds like something intended for just speaking it, how you pronounce words. How much does pronunciation matter when all you need to do is read/write rather than hear/speak?
It does apply. The literal meaning of "accented" doesn't matter – it's just a name for a specific game effect. (The rules specifically state: "your speech and writing"). You could call it "rather fluent" instead. With Accented written English, I generally read fluently, but might need to re-read some more sophisticated sentences to understand them fully (a penalty to Speed Reading and Research, doubled for understanding Poetry), and sometimes construct a sentence in a quirky way – it usually gets the message through (a small Fast-Talk or Writing penalty), but looks just… weird, for a native speaker.
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Old 10-22-2019, 04:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: Point value of being unable to learn language above broken/accented

What would this mechanic represent? Are we talking about a character who's speech is crippled because of a misshaped palate so they can't speak correctly? Is this a birth defect affecting the language center of the brain? Is this an electronic voice box with limited articulation?
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: Point value of being unable to learn language above broken/accented

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What would this mechanic represent? Are we talking about a character who's speech is crippled because of a misshaped palate so they can't speak correctly? Is this a birth defect affecting the language center of the brain? Is this an electronic voice box with limited articulation?
The ones based on the mechanics of articulation are better represented as Disturbing Voice (comparable perhaps to Stuttering). The ones based on limited grammatical competence and such would be Accented or Broken use of your native language (and perhaps total inability to read and write).
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