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Old 03-27-2019, 01:36 PM   #1
Engurrand
 
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Default Disentangle

You're Indiana Jones. You've just used your Whip (or Whip!) skill to Entangle (technique, H, MA71) a handy rock-protrusion so you can swing (Acrobatics at no penalty, or if you have Brachiator then no roll necessary) across a spiked pit trap (LT122).

Once on the other side, the Indiana Jones of Raiders of the Lost Arc leaves his whip behind. He cannot untangle it, and must (presumably off screen) buy a new one before his next adventure. The Indiana Jones of The Temple of Doom does this same trick, and then, with a flick of his wrist, disentangles his whip. By the time of The Last Crusade he's not even shown disentangling, he just has the whip later. IMHO there are no more Indiana Jones movies.

You could call this a steady tilt to the right on the campaign realism-cinema scale but I prefer to call it a trait he learned.

What do you need to buy to free your whip with a flick of your wrist? Is it a variant of Retain Weapon? A Disentangle Perk?

What about if you want to make a kusari or flail let go? The victim of the Entangle must make three ready maneuvers, but what about the perpetrator of the Entangle?
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Old 03-27-2019, 01:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: Disentangle

Having done this in real life (not the swinging part but tangling and dragging standing lamps for fun) its not that hard, just give it some slack and flick it with an outward twist. Doesnt always work, sometimes you have to remove it where its entangled but its doable most of the time.
I'd call it a perk to do it without a roll and base it off the Entangle Technique, say -2.
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Old 03-27-2019, 03:11 PM   #3
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Disentangle

Classic example of taking a Ready maneuver?
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Disentangle

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Classic example of taking a Ready maneuver?
Yes, for sure. This is definitely a ready maneuver. It requires at least one second, and no other maneuver fits the bill. The question is really whether it also requires a roll, and if so, a roll on what?

Refplace's suggestion of Entangle-2 would mean that you ordinarily entangle a limb at Whip-4 (for Entangle), and Unentangle at Whip-6.
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Disentangle

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Originally Posted by Engurrand View Post
Yes, for sure. This is definitely a ready maneuver. It requires at least one second, and no other maneuver fits the bill. The question is really whether it also requires a roll, and if so, a roll on what?

Refplace's suggestion of Entangle-2 would mean that you ordinarily entangle a limb at Whip-4 (for Entangle), and Unentangle at Whip-6.
I know that seems severe, but in my admittedly limited experience I found unentangling harder than entangling and entangling harder than striking.
Back a few years ago I could flip a light switch on and off 70 or 80% of the time, not sure what that makes my skill but I know a lot of people much better.
So I think the Entangle defaulting to -4 is too harsh., Cracking is -4 and I think should be -2.

A 2 yard whip is longer than the 3 foot snakewhip I used to own so a Ready maneuver would work fine.
I would say use the same rules for Readying it for use apply to unentangling, so over 6 foot takes two or more Readies.
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: Disentangle

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Classic example of taking a Ready maneuver?
No way, he was clearly doing a "Break Free" attack to remove the grapple the weapon had asserted on that object. He's so good that when he does an All-Out-Attack he can afford to take the "Strong" option (maximize Control Points removed) rather than the "Determined" Option (to get the DX bonus).
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:24 AM   #7
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Default Re: Disentangle

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I know that seems severe, but in my admittedly limited experience I found unentangling harder than entangling and entangling harder than striking. SNIP
I don't have anything against that ruling. It's pretty much what I would have rolled-and-shouted.

Your explanation emphasizes another deficiency in the whip rules though. The knot only stays in place because the whip is taut. This is consistent with the rule that you can only hold someone immobile for as long as the lariat/whip is taut, but the rules say keeping it taut requires a Ready maneuver each turn. It seems like Ready maneuvers would be a newb way of keeping on the pressure. The target could just take a move action to close with the whip user, and unless the whip user can reel in their whip at a rate of meters-per-second equal to the target's move, the pressure is off. Instead, the whip user aught to take move actions, dragging the victim behind them. That way the victim has to try to keep up, and will probably fall or be pulled over. In any case, the pressure stays on. I've seen this featured in westerns, though I don't recall which ones. The rules don't allow it, but could easily. Another candidate for house-ruling.
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: Disentangle

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Originally Posted by Engurrand View Post
It seems like Ready maneuvers would be a newb way of keeping on the pressure. The target could just take a move action to close with the whip user, and unless the whip user can reel in their whip at a rate of meters-per-second equal to the target's move, the pressure is off. Instead, the whip user aught to take move actions, dragging the victim behind them. That way the victim has to try to keep up, and will probably fall or be pulled over. In any case, the pressure stays on. I've seen this featured in westerns, though I don't recall which ones. The rules don't allow it, but could easily. Another candidate for house-ruling.
Its realistic though, and was discussed in the buildup to Technical Grappling.
You can Move towards the subject and keep grabbing new lengths of leather.
Also a Wait and grab or Retreat to maintain the tautness. And if they are faster or surprise you it helps them get free.
Whips are IMO over powered in GU<RPS, but hey there cool.
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