Fast-Draw (Buckler)

[Gnomasz]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Presumably, this means that a Fast-Drawn buckler can be used to defend on the same turn.

Is there anything that prevents a buckler readied normally from being used to defend on the same turn? Normally a buckler is readied in one Ready maneuver and can be used to defend on the same turn.

A fast-drawn buckler could be used to attack on the same turn, or would just allow you to attack with your other weapon using Attack maneuver while also reading the buckler.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

The write-up for Fast-Draw (Basic Set p194) says 'A successful roll means you ready the weapon instantly. This does not count as a combat maneuver; you can use the weapon to attack on the same turn.

Good point. I guess my confusion comes from B325 which describes 2 things you'd normally need to do:

*"draw any item"
*"prepare it for use"

The reason I guess I view that as distinctive steps is because there is a "I'm holding a drawn weapon but it's not ready for use" state of being which can happen through partial disarms or critically failed blocks or unbalanced weapons.

B382 appears to contradict my assumption though, since it discusses merely a single ready needed to prep something for action from a belt/scabbard.

Doesn't it seem kind of strange though, that it takes exactly the same amount of time to prepare to swing an axe that you just swung as it does to remove an axe from a scabbard on your back?

I always envisioned that as, for normal guys w/o fast draw:

1) make an attack to grab your weapon (the act of putting your hand on the hilt of your belted sword, for example, which you see some people do even if they don't draw it)
2) make a 1st ready to remove the sword from the belt, and it's sort of hanging loosely in your hand, not aimed anywhere in particular
3) make a 2nd ready to "ready the weapon"

So basically 3 seconds of prep to fight... in which case, does Fast-Draw replace 1 ready, 2 readies or 3 readies?

I was wondering if maybe you could allow it to reduce 1-3 components to 0 but maybe with a heavier penalty the more steps you have to take.

this would explain while people might keep their hand atop a weapon hilt (prepped to quick draw) so by completing that component ahead of time, the final quickdraw would be less penalized.

I guess that's why I like (1) grabbing (2) drawing (3) 'readying' as distinct ideas... kind of wish there was a different word to use for the 3rd. "Presenting"? "Orienting"? IE whatever it is that moves your weapon into your front hex where people can strike at it? Whatever action would otherwise put into ideal alignment to make a strike/parry/block which you are unable to do with a held+drawn shield/axe which got unreadied by some situations.

B383's 2-turn scabbarding compard with MA102's "quick sheathing" seems to denote that when you first draw a weapon it's in a "Reverse Grip" but you're able to quickly switch to a normal one. Normally it takes a ready to go from Reverse>Normal grip though. That seems a lot like my vision of (1) Drawing (2) Preparing based on the separate comma points of B325.

There is a skill for rapidly switching between though (as free action instead of ready) so maybe people should need to do that to avoid making a 2nd ready to get into normal grip?

MA103's "Multiple Fast Draw" seems to have the necessary component for condensing a nearly unlimited amount of readies into a free action... (cumulative -2 per hand) so I guess it might be feasible to pull out (dropping as free actions) 5 swords in a single second, but the 5th sword would be at a -10 penalty to Quick-Draw so you'd probably start failing the roll and being forced to do a Ready.

If we broke down the 1-second ready into components (grab the weapon, pull out the weapon, orient the weapon) and applied make a -1 per component (rather than the -2 for drawing an entirely new item) so that it worked out to -3 per fully withdrawn weapon?

I'm thinking maybe add another -1 per "free action of dropping a weapon" if you do so in a CAREFUL way which avoids dropping the weapon on yourself. Only a -0 if you carelessly drop it but there might be a chance of it hitting your foot?

[AlexanderHowl]

Drawing a sword takes one ready action, which Fast-Draw replaces (placing a hand on a sword would be a free action, as would readying a sword after it was drawn, as you draw into a ready state usually). Drawing an arrow also takes one ready action, with Fast-Draw replaces, but drawing the bow takes a ready action as well. Drawing a buckler would probably be no more difficult to draw than a comparable mass weapon.

[Rasna]

Yes, at least for small ones (DB0 to DB1).

[Plane]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

placing a hand on a sword would be a free action

Ignoring how this might make a weapon easier to draw compared to having your hands up in a defensive posture (or if you just threw a punch) wouldn't that also make it harder for someone to steal your weapon?

Even if you haven't got a weapon readied, if you've got ahold of it I think they still need to disarm you to actually use it themself?

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

as would readying a sword after it was drawn, as you draw into a ready state usually).

As best I can get my head around it might be this comparison:

MA102 (Defensive Grip)
"the required Ready can be simultaneous with one or more of drawing the weapon, changing its reach, regaining control after an attack, or shifting between on- and two-handed grips."

Based on this idea of simultaneous non-penalized readying, drawing probably operates the same way.

The "remove from scabbard" readying-aspect and the "orient your weapon in a usable way" (ie recovering from a failed disarm if you didn't win by 3+ points: B401 "Knocking a weapon away") readying-aspect basically must be combined in a similar motion to how Defensive-Gripping can combine with other readying aspects?

I guess where I view it kinda differently is that these seem like consecutive components, whereas with Defensive Grip it seems like it might be interpreted as non-consecutive and just different orienting procedures.

Would that mean you could also combine the ready to recover a semi-disarmed weapon with the ready needed to prep an off-balance weapon for another attack, or would that be 2?

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Drawing an arrow also takes one ready action, with Fast-Draw replaces, but drawing the bow takes a ready action as well.

Yea, Bows (B275) have Shots (B270) of 1(2) meaning 2 readies to reload.

B195 has an instant readying reduce the reload time by 1, so from 2 to 1... and the intro at B194 does assume things are in a holster/sheath.

Quiver-drawing (to distinguish from the final act of String-drawing) seems to cover 3 components:

1) relocate one's hand to where your quiver is and grab/grapple your ammo
2) relocate one's hand to remove the arrow from quiver so it is free in the air
3) relocate one's hand to line up the bottom of the arrow the back with the string and laying the middle against the stabilizer

I guess when I think of myself or other untrained people trying to load a bow, I could see that taking (very carefully) 3 seconds instead of the RAW one second... is there some way to represent that?

Different phases would help to represent advanced stages of readiness better than "I'm walking around with my hands in my pockets" but less than "I'm walking around with an arrow lined up to string+stabilizer like...
1) "I'm walking around with my hand on my arrow-feathers"
2) "I'm walking around with an already-unquivered arrow in my hand"

MA103 introduces the idea of a separate preceding DX roll PRIOR to making a Fast-Draw roll, if you try to do it in Close Combat. It wouldn't apply to Fast-Drawing with nobody sharing your hex, or normal drawing... but it does give something to build from if you wanted grittier rules...

Like for example, what if you ALWAYS had to make the DX roll to grab your arrow (and maybe even a 2nd roll to remove the arrow and have it free of the quiver) but you just got a large bonus if nobody was in close combat with you, or if you were spending a Ready instead of a free action, or if you were using it as your SOLE free action instead of trying to do 2 consecutive free actions (grab then draw) in a single second.

Or instead of giving bonuses for using a maneuver for the component, if we had that be the baseline and used the Quick-Shooting rules where you made a roll (without needing to purchase the Quick-Draw skill) to turn ready maneuvers into free actions?

MA119 has quick-shooting rules for a 'free action string-draw' so to speak ('draw' alone probably is too vague since you both 'draw an arrow from a quiver' and 'draw a bowstring') so if we did split the "readying an arrow" into 2 parts (hand to quiver, quiver to string) rules like this could be used for people who wanted to do both in the traditional one-second.

[Tackarii]

Old post, but very relevant rule in the basic set. Page 383 under Readying Weapons and Other Gear. It's a tiny sentence, but direct:

"For the purpose of readying, treat a buckler as a weapon, not as a shield."

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

I'm pretty sure that I've seen bucklers worn on belts in period art (though I'm blanking on specific examples), so I'd say that it plausibly is.

Famously on the Bayeux tapestry.

[Anders]

Wouldn't it depend on the size of the buckler as well? Buckler in GURPS refers to how it's wielded, not size. Carrying a 25-lb. shield on a belt hook seems difficult.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Anders

Wouldn't it depend on the size of the buckler as well? Buckler in GURPS refers to how it's wielded, not size. Carrying a 25-lb. shield on a belt hook seems difficult.

Man. Someone should just write a book all about shields.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Anders

Wouldn't it depend on the size of the buckler as well? Buckler in GURPS refers to how it's wielded, not size. Carrying a 25-lb. shield on a belt hook seems difficult.

Strike "difficult," replace with "damn near impossible." Hanging 25 lbs of damn near anything off of a belt is a great way to have your pants down around your ankles.

Having done some foil-and-buckler fencing, I'm pretty dubious about the whole concept of Fast Draw:Buckler. You can certainly ready one quickly, and that's still going to suck up the entirety of a one-second melee round. Hanging one off of one's belt just means you're not spending 1d6-1 rounds fumbling around a pile of gear for it.

For cinematic swashbucklers, of course, sure, go for it.