01-28-2014, 05:54 PM | #21 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: [DF] Striking ST (only on surprise attack): what's a surprise attack?
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*If you opt to toss TG in with your DF, I'd probably require enough CP to inflict -4 to DX. |
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01-29-2014, 10:01 AM | #22 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: [DF] Striking ST (only on surprise attack): what's a surprise attack?
"Surprise attack" means "An attack against which you have no active defense because you could not see it coming." That is, an attack from behind, or by someone invisible or otherwise undetectable to you, or in a social situation where you were caught completely off-guard. The important part is that (1) you did not expect to be attacked at that instant, and (2) as a result, you have no defense roll. Condition (1) by itself isn't sufficient; if you didn't expect an attack but are merely stunned and at -4 to defend, it isn't a surprise attack (from GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 11: Power-Ups, p. 35: "If the victim of the blow would receive an active defense, even at -4 for being stunned, this doesn't count!"). Condition (2) by itself isn't sufficient, either; thus, making an All-Out Attack, being told not to defend via Mind Control spells, etc. would not work.
And FWIW, I would treat the reduction for either of those conditions by itself as -30%. If you always get the bonus when your target has no active defense, even when you're in plain sight? -30%. If you always get the bonus when your target cannot detect you, even if your attack is detectable and allows an active defense at a penalty at the last instant? -30%.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
01-29-2014, 01:12 PM | #23 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The ASS of the world, mainly Valencia, Spain (Europe)
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Re: [DF] Striking ST (only on surprise attack): what's a surprise attack?
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Now I have an assassin/martial artist who power blows (3x)/unarmed master/claws from behind ;) |
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01-29-2014, 02:02 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Behind You
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Re: [DF] Striking ST (only on surprise attack): what's a surprise attack?
Sorry Kromm, your wording being so long confused me. Striking Strength Surprise Attack doesn't work on someone who All Out Attacked?
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01-29-2014, 02:04 PM | #25 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The ASS of the world, mainly Valencia, Spain (Europe)
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Re: [DF] Striking ST (only on surprise attack): what's a surprise attack?
Not unless he also doesn't see you (so you get it if you attack him from behind, you're invisible or he's blind, and doesn't hear you, etc etc). Not at least by the rules as written and intended (though you are free to change how they work in your game, if you're the game master)
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01-29-2014, 02:09 PM | #26 | |
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Behind You
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Re: [DF] Striking ST (only on surprise attack): what's a surprise attack?
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So in my game it works! Mwaha. Plus it's easier to say "If they can't roll a defense you can get your damage." |
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01-29-2014, 02:15 PM | #27 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [DF] Striking ST (only on surprise attack): what's a surprise attack?
All-out attack is already a stupid choice to make almost all the time. No need to make it even more stupid. I'd be tempted to say that you can defend at -4 during an AoA.
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01-29-2014, 02:41 PM | #28 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: [DF] Striking ST (only on surprise attack): what's a surprise attack?
IME, this isn't remotely true. If you are using a ranged weapon especially from cover it's often worth it for the +1 (and required for Sighted Shooting if using that rule). If you have high DR and can shrug off attacks it's often worth it. If you are attacking a helpless or unaware foe it's often worth it. I see it used (and used well) on at least 10% of attacks.
Last edited by sir_pudding; 01-29-2014 at 03:27 PM. |
01-29-2014, 02:56 PM | #29 |
formerly known as 'Kenneth Latrans'
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
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Re: [DF] Striking ST (only on surprise attack): what's a surprise attack?
Further, if you are offensively heavy and have an adjacent ally with good defenses and stuff like Shield Wall Training to cover attacks made against you All-Out Attack can be good. In "every man for himself" skirmishes, not so much.
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01-29-2014, 04:37 PM | #30 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Platform Zero, Sydney, Australia
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Re: [DF] Striking ST (only on surprise attack): what's a surprise attack?
I also favour the version where all that's required is that they have no option to defend, but yeah, -60% is too much for that.
And yeah, I see AoA used pretty frequently, especially from behind or when you have plenty of DR. |
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