Maps for the NEXT expansion

[wolf90]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Hmm - I had not realized that we were that short on water.

The retail edition of ODE has absolutely no Water overlays. Zilch. A number of Swamp overlays, and a few Bridge over Water hexes, but no plain Water hexes. If one is willing to stipulate that all Swamp is actually open Water, then those counters can be substituted, but it is not visually appealing.

The KS edition is better, as both sheet M1 and M2 have some larger Water overlays (see below), but there are still no 1- or 2-hex options for plain ole Water.

By their very nature, Rivers and Water are exciting means of map-bashing, in that they are extremely restrictive to most units, and yet completely passable by Ogres. Plus, from both my own wish list as well as apparently others as viewed throughout the forums, many of us wish to create a beachhead scenario and therefore need a map commensurate with our ideas. And THAT is where Water overlays (or a new map?) come to play.

D.

Kickstarter Exclusive Water overlays
M1 - one 6-hex triangle, 3-hex straight and 3-hex curved
M2 - one 4-hex (3-and-1 formation), plus 3-hex straight and 3-hex curved

[HeatDeath]

Elegant solution:

North half: vast majority is water. Scattered small islands, but not so many or so large that they can't be turned to water with the existing water overlays. Existing overlays allow this to be geomorphed to anything, and the creation of interesting coastlines or small islands.

South half: vast majority is city, with some parks and waterways. Existing city overlays allow this to geomorph to anything.

One of the cool things about a map like this is that it gives a dynamic theme for it's expansion. One of the coolest things about the Assault Packs as publicly tested is that they're not just "<Terrain> Assault Pack." They have really dynamic titles and themes - they're story hooks, with terrain and units and scenarios to support the stories, instead of the other way around.

And a map like this would provide a really dynamic title and theme for it's expansion: "Ogre: INVASION!". The scenarios and included units could be centered around the theme of establishing beachheads or last-ditch defenses against Dunkirk-style encirclements. A half-map of mostly water would even allow, with only slight reworking, the official publication of "Icepick".

Put me down for two of these as well. :)

[FJCestero]

Isn't it about time for a new series of geo-maps? Like say "W" that matches a G's east and an S's west sides, turning a small G-S lake into something more impressive. Then make W's north and south borders so it can slot into the usual sequence. Yes, I know, overlays. But still.

Also, it's not possible to (or at least awkward as it leaves a river 'dangling') create a 2x2 map with G and S at opposite corners, i.e.:

X S
G Y <-- not possible!

Can we define an 'X' and a 'Y' map to do this?

We already have variants of G and S, should we make the most of this rare opportunity? Other ideas?

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

"Raw PDF" - Define or send reference link, please. You don't mean this http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products...e_rulebook.pdf , right?

That's the one. Are we OK using that? I assumed we were since the German translation was free.

The ODE rulebook is beautiful work. However, I understand layout is labor. I'd welcome a searchable PDF with all the rules, up-to-date, even if it were spartan.

[atomic]

Raw pdf may be another way to say "toner friendly." A pdf without the background graphics, shading, or other things that are aesthetically pleasing but use up printer resources.

[Tim Kauffman]

Are the new maps going to be the same format and sizes as the GEV maps we have now? Will they be cut the same?

To make the maps more versatile, would it be possible, and cost effective to have them divided/cut in half as 2 separate pieces, long ways, instead of having the 6 fold out pieces of the available maps that are all one map section? You could have 2 map pieces instead of one that fold out. The beauty of this would be now that we have the overlays, those could be placed over any half hexes that are different terrain over the seem lines of the different maps.
Of course this would take a lot more planning to try and get the most variety of layouts with them because you are working with more and smaller map sections, but it may be worth it?

Unless I am missing something and it would be disastrous to do so, I am planning on cutting all my maps in half long ways to allow this increased layout flexibility. I'll label the backs of each one so I know which halves are from which maps for when I need them to be in their original form.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

What would be a good thing to tackle for a later expansion? For instance, I have a sketch, never published anywhere of a partially water-filled crater many hexes across, which dominates the map area. That map is not fully geomorphic to G and S series - it would join on two sides at best. Would that be an acceptable price to pay for getting something that was obviously different even from 20 feet up?

It would be because it's really new and unique and we can always use terrain overlays to join up the maps...however, I wonder what it was that created such a huge crater? Secret weapon? Natural disaster like a now dormant volcano after it blew most of it's lid off?

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Or a completely grasslands, or completely badlands, map, that would have only those features that you supply by overlay? That is ultimately flexible, but I don't know if I want to charge you $20 for a green piece of cardboard, even if it's very high quality cardboard of a beautiful green.

I like the idea of these plain maps and using terrain overlays on them, but would rather invest in something that takes this concept just a smidge more.
Please see below the Modular OGRE Terrain Board idea. Basically 5 pieces/template dies would need to be made, but once you have those, since it is modular, those 5 pieces simply repeat themselves as you increase the size of the map. You then fill it in with terrain overlays.

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

If you had a map where the entire center was city, except for a couple of parks and lakes, would you use it?

I would like to see some single City hex overlays, one with a single curved road through and the other with a single road that ends in the middle of the City hex. We don't have any of those atm other than ones on the maps, and they look good.

It may be worthwhile to make some sort of OGRE DE Terrain Overlay MegaPack with some new terrain hexes like I mentioned for example, because I think we do not have enough atm, that is, people will be more willing to pick up one of these sets or two to round out what they need for overlays as opposed to buying extra units sets and they already have too many units, they just want terrain overlays. As a further incentive, it would be cool to have a 3D chipboard nuke explosion included. Consider this to be anti-terrain...lol
__________________________________________________ ___________
I welcome any new maps, and I'm favoring something like a coastline and really big major city.
__________________________________________________ ___________

An idea for the next, next, next map expansion...

This actually does not have as many moving parts as it seems and would compliment the terrain overlays we already have.

This would allow the most modular set ups possible using the already existing 3D Chipboard Overlays:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...57649789633815

There are 5 different shaped pieces and you need 8 of them (numbered 1-5) to make the core board that is shown. You would need x2 #1/x2 #2/ x2 #3/ x4 #4 and 1 #5. To expand the board, you would need additional pieces based on how the board would be expanded.
It should be the size of a GEV Map...(I need to add a hex row around the entire border, and it will be the same size).

Having blue hexes on the bottom allows you to use this to represent water instead of using water hex overlays.

The core idea is using already existing 3D Chipboard Overlays with new ones that could be arranged however you wanted. The only limit is how many pieces you have to use. Larger Overlay pieces could be made available, ranging from 3 to 7 hexes like the ones already available, or even larger if possible.

You could make any sort of map layout you want provided you have enough overlays and modular map pieces.

The good thing about it is you could make any maps any size you want limited only by your imagination and how many pieces you have.

The not so good is it would not be compatible with any of the other maps available, and it would take some time to set up these maps and take them down. But having the ability to make new fully customizable maps, in addition to the maps we already have available, Imho would be worth the extra time needed to make them.
Also, the hexes would not be numbered because of their modular natures.
But you could place tokens with numbers or letters in any important hexes to designate them.
__________________________________________________ ___________

[Stabliser]

OK so my internet has been down for a month and it just happens to be the month when maps were getting discussed - sigh.
I think I'm walking on other people suggestions here, so my apologies, I'm late to the discussion.

Anyway I did some coastal map bashing after ODE arrived and here's a link to what I came up with.

http://i.imgur.com/cxe0yNJ.jpg

It shows 4 half maps that replace G1S, S1S, S2N and G2N. So it takes advantage of the new edges we have to match with because of the ODE maps being printed in 2 halves.
A further 2 more boring map halves can give us open ocean.

http://i.imgur.com/bQWAlVy.jpg

The actual terrain on these examples doesn't matter, but the edges do. To get a decent coastline we need to break one of the geomorphic map sides.

Why do we want coastline/ocean?
Well, before ODE appeared on this forum the most posted to and read thread was 'Sea Ogre' - there was significant interest.
The Ogre book has an article about sea based ogre, including new units.
A fan made expansion was made. (Kraken)
Also the Combine and the Paneuropeans are separated by an ocean - getting a beachhead is bound to be one of the most significant parts of the back story.

Apart from that I like the idea of mountain (iron mountain) terrain and badlands terrain - Infantry need a place on the map to shine.

Once again sorry for arriving late to this discussion and probably not reading someone else suggesting exactly this.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by Stabliser

OK so my internet has been down for a month and it just happens to be the month when maps were getting discussed - sigh.

Once again sorry for arriving late to this discussion and probably not reading someone else suggesting exactly this.

I was wondering what happened to you. :-)

[brettd]

Seems to me the way to start is by asking the question:

"What game play would be fun which cannot be done with current maps"

A major city brawl is an example of something you can't do now, but would that be "fun"?

Maybe a map cut by several major linear water features (a map with two or three one or two hex wide large rivers) going *in parallel* and cutting the map into either a series of blocking rivers which must be crossed (if you are moving perpendicular to the rivers) or several "bowling alley lanes" side by side (if you are parallel to the rivers). This would allow for two kinds of games - a multiple-river crossing (Market Garden) type game and a "Parallel Battles" type game (Stonewall's Valley Campaign-ish?). Bridges being up or down would radically change the game, providing flexibility. The rivers could terminate at each end in swamps or whatever (or go with overlays) to allow geomorphing.

[selenite]

Originally Posted by Stabliser

Also the Combine and the Paneuropeans are separated by an ocean - getting a beachhead is bound to be one of the most significant parts of the back story.

Originally Posted by brettd

A major city brawl is an example of something you can't do now, but would that be "fun"?

I'd have a lot of fun with both of those. For example scenarios, and maps to go with them, check out "Citadel" and "Beachhead" in this article.