Maps for the NEXT expansion - Page 3

GranitePenguin · 01-08-2016, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misplaced Buckeye

I have always wondered why no one has ever brought rule books out in three ring binders so you easily upgrade them. Maybe SJG could start a trend. I know that I'd pay the extra for something durable. They even make them as an easel mount you you have your game chart sitting there for all to see.

That has been done before. The 2nd Ed AD&D Monster Manual was like that. It works for discreet things like Monsters, does not work for things like rules.

Durability is the problem. As soon as you put holes in something, it becomes easy to rip (and binders are flimsy). Plus, anything that can't be easily contained to a single page starts to have overflow issues. Change the rules too much and you have to replace 5 pages to fit on change.

mmaestro · 01-08-2016, 08:42 AM

For me, new terrain types. I don't much care if the maps will attach to existing ones, just bring something different. Tundra/Arctic, jungle, perhaps a new terrain type (jungle I think lends itself to terrain that only infantry can pass through, which could create some interesting tactical considerations).

HeatDeath · 01-08-2016, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misplaced Buckeye

I have always wondered why no one has ever brought rule books out in three ring binders so you easily upgrade them. Maybe SJG could start a trend. I know that I'd pay the extra for something durable. They even make them as an easel mount you you have your game chart sitting there for all to see.

Harpoon and SFB do this. I'm not certain anyone other than SFB has ever actually used the upgrade capability though.

Deimos · 01-08-2016, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

If you had a map where the entire center was city, except for a couple of parks and lakes, would you use it?

I'd be VERY happy to have a map like this. It would be highly useful for a number of scenarios that I'd like to run. It wouldn't have to be any specific city, just have enough interesting "neighborhoods" that could be used for tactical purposes and/or objectives.

dwalend · 01-08-2016, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

That has been done before. The 2nd Ed AD&D Monster Manual was like that. It works for discreet things like Monsters, does not work for things like rules.

Star Fleet Battles did that as well. Same problems. It's kind of a 1970s solution. (And Heatdeath beat me to the reference.)

I'd pay $ for a raw pdf of all the rules. It doesn't have to be pretty, just in-order and searchable - 2016's equivalent technology. (We kinda got that with the edits of ODE, and they are pretty. Also in German if that works for you.)

piningforthefjords · 01-08-2016, 10:05 AM

Add my vote for new terrain types - with different effects on gameplay:

jungle (as mentioned) - only infantry can pass thru
cliff - impassable for vehicles except Ogres can drive off the cliff (for X die tread damage) but can't go up it. Infantry can cross either way for 2MP.
mountains - impassable for everyone
desert - +1 MP like road bonus

etc.

HeatDeath · 01-08-2016, 10:31 AM

I would point out that the Assault Packs, as publicly tested, have already been revealed as introducing a significant number of new terrain types. The intent, as I understand it, is to market them as packs of terrain overlays, new units, and scenarios. As terrain overlays, the new terrain types will be applicable to any map, including the new mounted map under discussion.

A mounted map that is centered around and showcases interesting new terrain types may therefore be slightly premature. The Assault Packs are going to throw a bunch of new terrain types against the wall. It may be worth waiting to see what sticks, so to speak. I would personally try to focus on how a new map can use the existing terrain types in new and interesting ways that are markedly different from the existing 6 GEV maps, and that cannot be easily approximated with the existing (or any plausible future) set of terrain overlays.

By way of suggestion: in posts 4, 5, and 6 of this thread, I proposed, and tomc expertly worked up, this idea: what a proper "fortress" would look like in Ogre terms - a thick line or ring of swamp, with mined roadways, surrounding a city hex or small island. Ring the island with Howitzers, salt the swamp with infantry, and you have a defensive fortification that can probably fight off quite a significant multiple of it's weight in armor units. And it looks very different from the existing GEV maps, even "from ten feet up." I wonder if this approximates the "crater" concept to some degree?

GranitePenguin · 01-08-2016, 10:36 AM

Guess I should directly answer the questions...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

What would be a good thing to tackle for a later expansion? For instance, I have a sketch, never published anywhere of a partially water-filled crater many hexes across, which dominates the map area. That map is not fully geomorphic to G and S series - it would join on two sides at best. Would that be an acceptable price to pay for getting something that was obviously different even from 20 feet up?

Yes, it would. As pointed out several times now, overlays can fix most spots where non-geomorph disconnects happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

If you had a map where the entire center was city, except for a couple of parks and lakes, would you use it?

Yes. Large city areas would be interesting. Up until now, we've had fairly small town clusters in the countryside. A larger "metropolis" sprawling across multiple hexes would have some unique challenges. In particular, towns slow things down a lot and invite concentrated firepower due to increased D values (you aren't going to see GEVs flying around, for example). A ground-pound urban conflict would definitely be unlike anything that currently exists.

selenite · 01-08-2016, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piningforthefjords

mountains - impassable for everyone

Given the described capabilities of battlesuits, infantry should be able to enter any terrain. Even a CM crater once it's cooled off.

Misplaced Buckeye · 01-08-2016, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwalend

Star Fleet Battles did that as well. Same problems. It's kind of a 1970s solution. (And Heatdeath beat me to the reference.)

I'd pay $ for a raw pdf of all the rules. It doesn't have to be pretty, just in-order and searchable. (We kinda got that with the edits of ODE, and they are pretty. Also in German if that works for you.)

I could go for that. I can get my own binder. Maybe even make it part of the War Room App.

01-08-2016, 08:42 AM	#22
mmaestro Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA	Re: Maps for the NEXT expansion For me, new terrain types. I don't much care if the maps will attach to existing ones, just bring something different. Tundra/Arctic, jungle, perhaps a new terrain type (jungle I think lends itself to terrain that only infantry can pass through, which could create some interesting tactical considerations). __________________ "It is better to win without fighting." -Sun Tzu

01-08-2016, 10:05 AM	#26
piningforthefjords Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: not quite Paradise	Re: Maps for the NEXT expansion Add my vote for new terrain types - with different effects on gameplay: jungle (as mentioned) - only infantry can pass thru cliff - impassable for vehicles except Ogres can drive off the cliff (for X die tread damage) but can't go up it. Infantry can cross either way for 2MP. mountains - impassable for everyone desert - +1 MP like road bonus etc. __________________ Tristan

01-08-2016, 10:31 AM	#27
HeatDeath Join Date: May 2012	Re: Maps for the NEXT expansion I would point out that the Assault Packs, as publicly tested, have already been revealed as introducing a significant number of new terrain types. The intent, as I understand it, is to market them as packs of terrain overlays, new units, and scenarios. As terrain overlays, the new terrain types will be applicable to any map, including the new mounted map under discussion. A mounted map that is centered around and showcases interesting new terrain types may therefore be slightly premature. The Assault Packs are going to throw a bunch of new terrain types against the wall. It may be worth waiting to see what sticks, so to speak. I would personally try to focus on how a new map can use the existing terrain types in new and interesting ways that are markedly different from the existing 6 GEV maps, and that cannot be easily approximated with the existing (or any plausible future) set of terrain overlays. By way of suggestion: in posts 4, 5, and 6 of this thread, I proposed, and tomc expertly worked up, this idea: what a proper "fortress" would look like in Ogre terms - a thick line or ring of swamp, with mined roadways, surrounding a city hex or small island. Ring the island with Howitzers, salt the swamp with infantry, and you have a defensive fortification that can probably fight off quite a significant multiple of it's weight in armor units. And it looks very different from the existing GEV maps, even "from ten feet up." I wonder if this approximates the "crater" concept to some degree? Last edited by HeatDeath; 01-08-2016 at 10:39 AM.