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Old 04-23-2013, 06:07 PM   #81
chandley
 
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Default Re: Targeting cone attacks

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
So generally you want to aim at a point that is close but that puts your targets in the cone, yes?
With the tactical decision of, if your cone is wide enough at the range your target is at, it might better to aim at a farther point because scatter at farther ranges wont shift the closer sections of the cone as much as if you aim at a closer point and miss...

Not as easy as point and shoot, but Kromm is the man in the know so...
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:41 PM   #82
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Default Re: Targeting cone attacks

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
It still seems like you can miss the guy right in front of you completely. Of course without range modifiers that's not as likely.
Sure, but only if you'd have rolled bad enough to miss him if you were aiming at him (assuming the two targets are in a straight line with each other). EDIT: However, you really need to take into account range modifiers in that guy's situation to get better results.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:50 PM   #83
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Default Re: Targeting cone attacks

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Cones are a subset of Area and Spreading attacks (pp. B413-414), and use all the "generic" rules for those things. They are aimed at a point, not at an opponent (SM is irrelevant) or an area (the +4 for attacking "an area of ground" doesn't apply, either . . . or to be precise, if it does, the cone is being shot at the ground). If they miss, they use Scatter (p. B414). Use the distance to the chosen point to limit scatter distance. Since the target isn't a person, his dodge roll margin is irrelevant. They inflict Large-Area Injury (p. B400) on anything in the area.
Nothing in this post actually answers the primary question in the thread - namely 'why would you ever accept a range penalty when aiming a cone?' I'd really appreciate a clarification on that point (though I'm still certain that I'm correct, or, if not, that I'd immediately house rule how they work).
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:07 PM   #84
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Default Re: Targeting cone attacks

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Spread is always the same shape: basically, a triangle of maximum width at Max, narrowing to the attacker's hex at the originating end.
One more cone question: Playing on a hex-map, it's not always clear to me which hexes should be affected by a cone. For example, if the line between attacker and target point passes along a border between two hexes, which of the two hexes should be affected by a 1-yard wide cone? Or if the cone is two yards wide and the line passes through the center of a hex? Any advice you could give on how to handle cone attacks on a hex-map would be appreciated...
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:44 PM   #85
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Default Re: Targeting cone attacks

Like I said in my first post, I'd love to see someone make some illustrations using hex maps and a cone of 5 yards, Reduced Range, x1/5.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:11 PM   #86
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Default Re: Targeting cone attacks

What bothers me is that scatter is not based on a percentage of the distance but flat yds. I am far more likely to hit someone if I aim way beyond him than the area right behind him, because scatter at the closer range is a far larger difference in degrees; e.g. missing barbarian with such a thin cone (5yds, 100long) when aiming directly 'at' him means I will miss him no matter what. But if I aim at 80yds behind him, and miss, I'm almost guaranteed to still hit him, because the cone would not swivel nearly as much.

(and sorry, Stripe, I'm still trying to figure out my hexing program)
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:19 PM   #87
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Default Re: Targeting cone attacks

Innate Attack, p. B61, has 1/2D 10, Max 100, Acc 3, RoF 1, Shots N/A, and Recoil 1.

Burning costs 5 points per level.

The cost of Cone, p. 103, is based on the maximum width of the cone, in yards, at the attack's maximum range. Cone costs +50% plus +10% per yard of maximum width.

Each level of Reduced Range, p. B115, reduces both 1/2D and Max. At a range divisor of 5, it is worth -20%.

So:

Dragon's Breath: Burning Attack 4d (Cone, 5 yards, +100%; Reduced Range, x1/5, -20%) [36].

In Dungeon Fantasy, for a dragon with Innate Attack (Breath) skill (p. B 201) at level 15, this innate attack might be written:

Dragon's Breath (15): 4d burn. Range 2/20.

The cone has a max range of 20 yards away and at 20 yards, it is five yards wide. Its 1/2D range starts "at or beyond" (p. B270) the second yard. As described under Cone Attacks, p. B413, a cone is one yard wide at its origin, but increases in width at a "rate of spread" equal to its specified maximum width divided by its maximum range. If I understand correctly, that's 0.25 hexes, or one hex every four yards in this case.

As far as I can tell, this cone attack would look something like this:

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/3...gonfirehex.jpg

Yellow: Full power.
Orange: 1/2D, half hex.
Red: 1/2D.

Is that at all right?

I plan to use some sort of a stencil when we play table top and make partial-hex calls on a case-by-case basis.
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Last edited by Stripe; 04-23-2013 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:41 PM   #88
Kromm
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Default Re: Targeting cone attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post

'why would you ever accept a range penalty when aiming a cone?'
To reduce the impact of scatter. In other words, this is intended behavior:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post

I am far more likely to hit someone if I aim way beyond him than the area right behind him
Precisely – it's a tradeoff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnome View Post

Playing on a hex-map, it's not always clear to me which hexes should be affected by a cone.
Honestly, I'd go with "any hex half filled or more," if you're good at eyeballing that. If you aren't, then treat partially filled hexes, however little they're touched, as being affected . . . but give people there +2 to Dodge as a kind of free sideslip.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:04 PM   #89
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Default Re: Targeting cone attacks

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Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
Dragon's Breath (15): 4d burn. Range 2/20.

The cone has a max range of 20 yards away and at 20 yards, it is five yards wide. It's 1/2D range starts "at or beyond" (p. B270) the second yard. As described under Cone Attacks, p. B413, a cone is one yard wide at its origin, but increases in width at a "rate of spread" equal to its specified maximum width divided by its maximum range. If I understand correctly, that's 0.25 hexes, or one hex every four yards in this case.

As far as I can tell, this cone attack would look something like this:

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3...gonfirehex.jpg

Yellow: Full power.
Orange: 1/2D, half hex.
Red: 1/2D.

Is that at all right?
Not exactly, I don't think. Your illustration is going out to 22 hexes. Also, I'd give full power to the first four hexes.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:08 PM   #90
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Default Re: Targeting cone attacks

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Also, I'd give full power to the first four hexes.
With 1/2D of 2?
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