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Old 08-24-2018, 10:23 AM   #1
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

Hello Folks,
Not that I expect anyone will take this seriously, but one never knows...

Here is the challenge. For ANY genre, or ANY concept, build any character you like and post it here. The only requirement is this...

If you post a 4e character here, you also have to post a 3e version showing all point cost totals involved.

For instance, GURPS PSIONICS has a far different point cost schedule for its psionics - but just for giggles, why not post both the 3e version and the 4e version just to see how much GURPS 4e has changed from 3e?

In theory? A 400 point character for a game system based on 150 points, is worth 267 points in 3e with its 100 point base character cost.

So, let's see what happens when people compare apples to apples, peaches to peaches in a GURPS challenge?

:)
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Old 08-24-2018, 02:13 PM   #2
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

Kinda-useless Man (third edition), 18 points:

ST 10 [0], DX 10 [0], IQ 10 [0], HT 10 [0].
Combat Reflexes [15].
Code of Honor (Pirate's) [-5]
Skills: Knife 13 [8].

Kinda-useless Man (fourth edition), 18 points:

ST 10 [0], DX 10 [0], IQ 10 [0], HT 10 [0].
Combat Reflexes [15].
Code of Honor (Pirate's) [-5]
Skills: Knife 13 [8].

Not sure I see the purpose of doing this comparison. Point costs change. I can go through the rules and come up with tons of stuff that hasn't changed between editions. Or I could bump Kinda-useless Man's Knife to 14, and suddenly the third edition version costs 4 points more than the fourth edition version. A third edition character point is not the same entity as a fourth edition character point, so there's really little point in comparing them. They're not like money, backed by an inherent value.

Why don't YOU post something and then demonstrate what's interesting about it.
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Old 08-24-2018, 02:56 PM   #3
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post

Why don't YOU post something and then demonstrate what's interesting about it.
That I will be doing before too long. The idea is to show just how BIG of a difference in points, ratio of points, etc - just to keep a given character type that was "Generic" in GURPS.

For example? A generic Mage in both 3e and 4e, built upon 100 points, and built upon 150 points respectively. How CLOSE are they to being the same, or how much less or how much more does it cost? Spells are the same point total as are sort of skills (sorta!!!!).

Now, do I have a second part to this thread once we get a few posts? I won't deny it, I do. It has to do with point optimization and what effects come into play due to high point budget totals etc.

It might also help explain why this matters largely because what worked for 3e in the early days, may not work in 4e (and by work, I'm talking about design philosophy).

Just a thought. <shrug>
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:52 PM   #4
Empada
 
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Location: Mülheim an der Ruhr
Default Re: GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

There is other problem.

I, for example, don't know any 3ed rules. So I can't do half of the proposition, and I won't expend my time to learn something I will not use.
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:57 PM   #5
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empada View Post
There is other problem.

I, for example, don't know any 3ed rules. So I can't do half of the proposition, and I won't expend my time to learn something I will not use.
I tell you what. Post a character and I'll do my best to stat an equivalent 3E character.
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Old 08-24-2018, 04:49 PM   #6
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

How much is changed depends heavily on which subsystems you're after. The change in stat and skill costs affects every character but is usually relatively uninteresting; really, a lot of characters don't need anything more than some tweaks to point costs and maybe names changed. On the other hand, some systems such as psionics are totally overhauled.
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Old 08-24-2018, 05:37 PM   #7
smurf
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Default Re: GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

I remember that 3e let you do all sorts. When 4e came along I enjoyed the stream lining. It made me think of the character and not a list of abilities I could cram into a super. That is, despite the loss of abilities in conversion I found 4e far more enjoyable. However, I wanted to keep some of the mechanics of 3e for 4e which helped to keep costs down.

Telepathy

How Telepathy works: First you need to make contact with a subject via Telecommunication (Telesend).

Telesend 30pts
Sapient Beings Only [-20%], Telepathic [-10%], Video (Secondary ability)[+8%] = 24pts

Mind Reading 30pts
Telepathic [-10%], Sensory [+20%], Telecommunication [-20%] = 27pts

Mind Probe 20pts
Telepathic [-10%], Sensory [+20%], Telecommunication [-20%] = 18pts

Illusion 25pts
Telepathic [-10%] Mental [+100%], Telecommunication [-20%] = 43pts

Mind Control 50pts
Telepathic [-10%], Based On Will (Target Roll) [+20%], Suggestion [-40%], Telecommunication [-20%] = 25pts

You can further cruch these down with Alternative Abilities, this means if any subject can negate an ability all abilities are negated.

Conversly the 3e Psi would be emensly power full. Maybe about 20 levels in Telepathy. Where as 4e you can get away with IQ12 + 4 levels of psi talent for 60pts. Reaching IQ16 in 3e IIRRC would be 75pts ((10x3)+(15x3)).
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Old 08-24-2018, 06:54 PM   #8
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
Now, do I have a second part to this thread once we get a few posts? I won't deny it, I do.
Yes, it seemed like you had an agenda behind the request. Why not just state it and let us consider it, rather than trying to run an experiment with an insufficient sample size?
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:58 PM   #9
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

Leon 3E
ST: 12 (20)
DX: 13 (30)
IQ: 12 (20)
HT: 12 (20)
Advantages: +3 Acute Vision (6), Combat Reflexes (15), Danger Sense (15), Rank 1 (5), Unfazeable (15), Attractive (5), Hard to KIll (6)
Disadvantages: Duty to Police Force 12- (-10), Dependent loved one (-24), Police Code of Honour (-5),
Quirks:
Haunted by recurrent nightmare of shooting his son (-1)
Not much of a talker (-1)
Smoker (-1)
Divorced and Lonely (-1)
Skills
Dancing 11 (1)
Running 9 (.5)
Swimming 12 (.5)
Guns 20 (24)
Judo 12 (1)
Karate 12 (1)
First Aid 12 (1)
Climbing 15 (4)
Survival (Forest) 12 (2)
Tracking 13 (4)
Area Knowledge (New York) 12 (1)
Tactics 10 (2)
Camouflage 13 (2)
Holdout 12 (2)
Stealth 15 (8)

Skills: 54
Disadvantages and Quirks: -43
Advantages: 67
Attributes: 90
Total: 168


Name: Leon
Race: Human

Attributes [140]
ST 12 [20]
DX 13 [60]
IQ 12 [40]
HT 12 [20]

HP 12
Will 12
Per 12
FP 12

Basic Lift 29
Damage 1d-1/1d+2

Basic Speed 6.25
Basic Move 6

Ground Move 6
Water Move 1

Social Background
TL: 8 [0]
Cultural Familiarities:
Languages:

Advantages [66]
Acute Vision (3) [6]
Appearance (Attractive) [4]
Combat Reflexes [15]
Danger Sense [15]
Hard to Kill (3) [6]
Police Rank (1) [5]
Unfazeable [15]

Perks [1]
Courtesy Rank (Ex-Military) (1) [1]

Disadvantages [-35]
Code of Honor (Professional) [-5]
Dependent (Son) (No more than 25%) (9 or less; Friend) [-10]
Dependent (Son2) (No more than 25%) (9 or less; Friend) [-10]
Duty (Police) (12 or less (quite often)) [-10]

Quirks [-4]
Lonely [-1]
Nightmares [-1]
Smoker [-1]
Taciturn [-1]

Skills [57]
Area Knowledge (New York) IQ/E - IQ+0 12 [1]
Camouflage IQ/E - IQ+1 13 [2]
Climbing DX/A - DX+2 15 [8]
Dancing DX/A - DX-1 12 [1]
First Aid/TL8 (Human) IQ/E - IQ+0 12 [1]
Guns/TL8 (Rifle) DX/E - DX+7 20 [24]
Holdout IQ/A - IQ+0 12 [2]
Judo DX/H - DX-1 12 [2]
Karate DX/H - DX-1 12 [2]
Running HT/A - HT-1 11 [1]
Stealth DX/A - DX+2 15 [8]
Survival (Forest) Per/A - Per-1 11 [1]
Swimming HT/E - HT+0 12 [1]
Tactics IQ/H - IQ-2 10 [1]
Tracking Per/A - Per+0 12 [2]

Stats [140] Ads [66] Disads [-35] Quirks [-4] Skills [57] = Total [225]

Last edited by David Johnston2; 08-25-2018 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:53 PM   #10
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: GURPS CHALLENGE: 3e builds and 4e builds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
Yes, it seemed like you had an agenda behind the request. Why not just state it and let us consider it, rather than trying to run an experiment with an insufficient sample size?
The problem is this:

Phase I builds are open enough, but Phase II builds are going to be a very limited directed phase I build instruction. I'd like to see people make the characters without knowing where I'd like for them to consider when they do the Phase II builds.

The only way to insure that people aren't making phase II builds from the start, is to keep mum about phase II.
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