Summon Myrmidon or Summon Myrmidon?

the1weasel · 06-22-2018, 03:02 PM

Something I have always wondered about this spell...

SUMMON MYRMIDON (C): Brings a warrior (ST 12, DX 12, IQ 8, MA 10, 2-die broadsword, no armor) to follow wizard's orders. Costs 2 ST, plus 1 each turn the myrmidon remains.

It specifically states "Brings a warrior." I mostly assumed that it was speaking of the standard dictionary definition of a myrmidon: "a member of a legendary Thessalian people who accompanied their king Achilles in the Trojan War". . .

. . .which was all well and good until the first time I cracked open ITL to look at the monsters and found this myrmidon lurking among the other HYMENOPTERANS on page 63:

MYRMIDONS are highly-developed warriors; many hives don't have them. They are man-sized and can use any human weapon their strength allows. ST 12, DX 12, IQ 8, MA' 10; figure combat ability as for a human. Myrmidons can operate without Basics to control them.

So does anybody care to settle this 38 year old bet with myself? Over the years a spot has worn where I've been scratching my head and now I'm forced to wear a ball cap or hat most of the time.

JLV · 06-22-2018, 04:24 PM

Well, we just always treated a "summoned Myrmidon" as a bog-standard Human warrior, per the Spell description. But given the stats are identical, you could just as easily say that it was a Hymenopteran. Or, actually, anything else that had those stats and could use a sword...

We never really did that, because we felt it was fine as is, but you could do it any way you wanted.

Kirk · 06-22-2018, 04:52 PM

One thing to remember is the deliberate confusion to be had between image, illusion, and summoned being.

A wizard doesn´t necessarily want you to know which of the three you are dealing with, so what you cast makes a difference.

If I see a wizard cast a spell and an octopus of Cidri appears, I am more likely to believe it is an illusion or image than a summoned creature.

If, however, a wolf appears, it´s a dilemma whether I should waste my time trying to disbelieve or ignore or fight it, since summoned wolf doesn´t require a high level IQ wizard to cast, nor an illusion or image of it.

Oneiros · 06-22-2018, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk

One thing to remember is the deliberate confusion to be had between image, illusion, and summoned being.

A wizard doesn´t necessarily want you to know which of the three you are dealing with, so what you cast makes a difference.

If I see a wizard cast a spell and an octopus of Cidri appears, I am more likely to believe it is an illusion or image than a summoned creature.

If, however, a wolf appears, it´s a dilemma whether I should waste my time trying to disbelieve or ignore or fight it, since summoned wolf doesn´t require a high level IQ wizard to cast, nor an illusion or image of it.

Right, but if a GM allowed a hymenopteran myrmidon as the result of the Summon Myrmidon, than an illusion of one is just as questionable as a wolf.

Personally, I think that would be great for a themed wizard... just find/create stat equivalent insect creatures to sub for wolves, bears, etc. that they can summon instead.

KevinJ · 06-22-2018, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk

One thing to remember is the deliberate confusion to be had between image, illusion, and summoned being.

A wizard doesn´t necessarily want you to know which of the three you are dealing with, so what you cast makes a difference.

If I see a wizard cast a spell and an octopus of Cidri appears, I am more likely to believe it is an illusion or image than a summoned creature.

If, however, a wolf appears, it´s a dilemma whether I should waste my time trying to disbelieve or ignore or fight it, since summoned wolf doesn´t require a high level IQ wizard to cast, nor an illusion or image of it.

The mage in my game has used Summon Myrmidon often (humen warrior type) and one day I pointed out that he could summon one, then create illusions of others far cheaper. He was dumbfounded.

KevinJ · 06-22-2018, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the1weasel

Something I have always wondered about this spell...

SUMMON MYRMIDON (C): Brings a warrior (ST 12, DX 12, IQ 8, MA 10, 2-die broadsword, no armor) to follow wizard's orders. Costs 2 ST, plus 1 each turn the myrmidon remains.

It specifically states "Brings a warrior." I mostly assumed that it was speaking of the standard dictionary definition of a myrmidon: "a member of a legendary Thessalian people who accompanied their king Achilles in the Trojan War". . .

So does anybody care to settle this 38 year old bet with myself? Over the years a spot has worn where I've been scratching my head and now I'm forced to wear a ball cap or hat most of the time.

I've always thought of them as human warriors, though they could be any otherworldly beings with the same stats, so using the bug is just as valid. It's importasnt to not that SJG does not own the rights to the Hymenoptera (this has been discussed in other threads).

tbeard1999 · 06-22-2018, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinJ

I've always thought of them as human warriors, though they could be any otherworldly beings with the same stats, so using the bug is just as valid. It's importasnt to not that SJG does not own the rights to the Hymenoptera (this has been discussed in other threads).

I always thought it would be fun to have PCs occasionally and randomly disappear and inserted into some faraway wizard duel as the summoned myrmidon...

JLV · 06-22-2018, 08:18 PM

I actually did that once! It was a hoot!. When the summoned guy died (he was in an Arena battle, as I recall), I told him he felt the deathblow and was suddenly snapped back to his own "reality" where he was hunched over, clutching his now perfectly okay torso...

The players freaked out, but they were incredibly impressed by the whole thing! ;-)

Groknard · 06-22-2018, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the1weasel

Something I have always wondered about this spell...

SUMMON MYRMIDON (C): Brings a warrior (ST 12, DX 12, IQ 8, MA 10, 2-die broadsword, no armor) to follow wizard's orders. Costs 2 ST, plus 1 each turn the myrmidon remains.

It specifically states "Brings a warrior." I mostly assumed that it was speaking of the standard dictionary definition of a myrmidon: "a member of a legendary Thessalian people who accompanied their king Achilles in the Trojan War". . .

"Myrmidon" also means a hired warrior or follower. In Wizard, we imagined them to be a featureless human fighter, almost mannequin-like. Supernatual and generic, rather than a summoned hireling, or some random fighter teleported from a tavern.

Quote:

. . .which was all well and good until the first time I cracked open ITL to look at the monsters and found this myrmidon lurking among the other HYMENOPTERANS on page 63:

MYRMIDONS are highly-developed warriors; many hives don't have them. They are man-sized and can use any human weapon their strength allows. ST 12, DX 12, IQ 8, MA' 10; figure combat ability as for a human. Myrmidons can operate without Basics to control them.

So does anybody care to settle this 38 year old bet with myself? Over the years a spot has worn where I've been scratching my head and now I'm forced to wear a ball cap or hat most of the time.

I don't recall that I ever confused the two types of myrmidons, probably because by the time ITL came out, I already had a picture in my mind. I think I just wrote it off as "They like the word myrmidon." IIRC, it was a class of Hymenopteran that wasn't in the Chitin:I game, and I assumed they (Howard and/or Steve) were probably in the process of creating and expanding the (unreleased) "Hymenoptera" game system, and it was a bit of cross promotion.

But I admit that I never even noticed they had the same attributes until you brought it up. So they must have intended to give the spell and the Cidri universe some further texture by implying that Wizards were actually summoning a drone-like bug guy. How cool!

Skarg · 06-23-2018, 12:00 AM

Having played Wizard long before seeing ITL, I thought Summon Myrmidon was just a nice stylish name for summoning a magical warrior out of thin air.

It was a while after running an ITL campaign that one of my players said they thought it referred to the hymenopteran Myrmidons, who interestingly had the same stats. From then on it wasn't clear. We also got curious about what it meant happened in the game universe to summon something: was it a new being created out of magic, or was it actually somehow brought from someplace else, and if so, where? Nearby wilderness? Another plane? When the spell ended, did they go back with memories and wounds from the experience? Would they remember and be freaked out if they happened to meet you later?

We ended up with an interesting magical item a ring with a Summon Myrmidon enchantment, but it didn't just let you cast the spell. It let you summon a particular myrmidon that was a hymenopteran myrmidon who "lived in the ring" in some strange pocket universe, and was controlled by the wearer about like a hymenopteran basic controls a myrmidon telepathically. The hymenopteran could get injured and would heal inside the ring at the usual 1/2 days rate. It didn't need to eat. It could be equipped with non-standard items that got stored with it inside the ring if it could carry or wear them, and it gained experience. I forget exactly what would happen if it died. The sheet I just found with an example of one showed it with lower than ST 12 DX 12, so I think maybe it got revived with ST 1 but lost 5 attribute points.

Groknard, you're right, myrmidons are not in the Chitin: I game.

06-22-2018, 03:02 PM	#1
the1weasel Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Louisville, KY	Summon Myrmidon or Summon Myrmidon? Something I have always wondered about this spell... SUMMON MYRMIDON (C): Brings a warrior (ST 12, DX 12, IQ 8, MA 10, 2-die broadsword, no armor) to follow wizard's orders. Costs 2 ST, plus 1 each turn the myrmidon remains. It specifically states "Brings a warrior." I mostly assumed that it was speaking of the standard dictionary definition of a myrmidon: "a member of a legendary Thessalian people who accompanied their king Achilles in the Trojan War". . . . . .which was all well and good until the first time I cracked open ITL to look at the monsters and found this myrmidon lurking among the other HYMENOPTERANS on page 63: MYRMIDONS are highly-developed warriors; many hives don't have them. They are man-sized and can use any human weapon their strength allows. ST 12, DX 12, IQ 8, MA' 10; figure combat ability as for a human. Myrmidons can operate without Basics to control them. So does anybody care to settle this 38 year old bet with myself? Over the years a spot has worn where I've been scratching my head and now I'm forced to wear a ball cap or hat most of the time.

06-22-2018, 04:24 PM	#2
JLV Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Arizona	Re: Summon Myrmidon or Summon Myrmidon? Well, we just always treated a "summoned Myrmidon" as a bog-standard Human warrior, per the Spell description. But given the stats are identical, you could just as easily say that it was a Hymenopteran. Or, actually, anything else that had those stats and could use a sword... We never really did that, because we felt it was fine as is, but you could do it any way you wanted.

06-22-2018, 04:52 PM	#3
Kirk Join Date: Feb 2018	Re: Summon Myrmidon or Summon Myrmidon? One thing to remember is the deliberate confusion to be had between image, illusion, and summoned being. A wizard doesn´t necessarily want you to know which of the three you are dealing with, so what you cast makes a difference. If I see a wizard cast a spell and an octopus of Cidri appears, I am more likely to believe it is an illusion or image than a summoned creature. If, however, a wolf appears, it´s a dilemma whether I should waste my time trying to disbelieve or ignore or fight it, since summoned wolf doesn´t require a high level IQ wizard to cast, nor an illusion or image of it.

06-22-2018, 08:18 PM	#8
JLV Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Arizona	Re: Summon Myrmidon or Summon Myrmidon? I actually did that once! It was a hoot!. When the summoned guy died (he was in an Arena battle, as I recall), I told him he felt the deathblow and was suddenly snapped back to his own "reality" where he was hunched over, clutching his now perfectly okay torso... The players freaked out, but they were incredibly impressed by the whole thing! ;-)

06-23-2018, 12:00 AM	#10
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Summon Myrmidon or Summon Myrmidon? Having played Wizard long before seeing ITL, I thought Summon Myrmidon was just a nice stylish name for summoning a magical warrior out of thin air. It was a while after running an ITL campaign that one of my players said they thought it referred to the hymenopteran Myrmidons, who interestingly had the same stats. From then on it wasn't clear. We also got curious about what it meant happened in the game universe to summon something: was it a new being created out of magic, or was it actually somehow brought from someplace else, and if so, where? Nearby wilderness? Another plane? When the spell ended, did they go back with memories and wounds from the experience? Would they remember and be freaked out if they happened to meet you later? We ended up with an interesting magical item a ring with a Summon Myrmidon enchantment, but it didn't just let you cast the spell. It let you summon a particular myrmidon that was a hymenopteran myrmidon who "lived in the ring" in some strange pocket universe, and was controlled by the wearer about like a hymenopteran basic controls a myrmidon telepathically. The hymenopteran could get injured and would heal inside the ring at the usual 1/2 days rate. It didn't need to eat. It could be equipped with non-standard items that got stored with it inside the ring if it could carry or wear them, and it gained experience. I forget exactly what would happen if it died. The sheet I just found with an example of one showed it with lower than ST 12 DX 12, so I think maybe it got revived with ST 1 but lost 5 attribute points. Groknard, you're right, myrmidons are not in the Chitin: I game.