04-20-2012, 09:49 PM | #161 |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
I don't think that's what he was saying, just that we don't know enough about consciousness yet to say how difficult Ghosting would be. IMO, that doesn't put it in the same level of impausibility as FTL, since we do have some idea of the difficulty of accelerating past light speed (ie, infinitely hard) or bypassing it in some way (warping space with ludicrous energy levels, or using exotic negative-mass materials). Ghosting as presented in TS and similar fiction is pretty implausible, but the idea itself has merit.
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04-20-2012, 09:56 PM | #162 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
Quote:
And above all, whereas I'm perfectly willing to accept the proposition that physics shows that FTL is impossible, making FTL in sf purely fantastic, I don't think there is any justification for the belief that a purely materialistic explanation of consciousness is impossible. I certainly don't think that such a thing has been proven. So I don't think it's proper to say that fully conscious digital entities are violations of natural law as FTL is. Bill Stoddard |
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04-20-2012, 09:57 PM | #163 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
If a brain is physical then it can be modeled.
How difficult it is may be a question. But it's not impossible or even that implausible. It would simply require a boat load of computational power and programming. I certainly agree that only 100 years is not enough to have created that level of computer. But compared to the actual impossibilities in THS, a "very difficult' shouldn't be the stumbling block.
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04-20-2012, 09:57 PM | #164 |
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
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04-20-2012, 10:18 PM | #165 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
Quote:
Of course we don't have a complete materialistic account of consciousness at this time. But that doesn't mean a materialistic account of consciousness is a known impossibility, like perpetual motion machines or general overproduction. It just means we don't have one. Bill Stoddard |
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04-21-2012, 03:32 AM | #166 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
Quote:
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04-21-2012, 05:58 AM | #167 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
Quote:
Everything depends on some assumptions. Scientific theories are highly useful approximations, with no necessary truth required. Empiricism generally involves the assumption that highly useful models of reality (useful at matching observed data and making predictions) are more likely to correspond to what is really true, and there's no reason to assume that other than hope or preference, really, in the end. Not all too useful in the tragic case of the brain in the vat that believes the Matrix they experience is all-that-is (a variant on Descartes, except, well, he made assumptions about what "I" and "self" and "think" and "am" are as well, not to mention the classical assumption of existence as the ultimate predicate). Which is precisely the sort of thing that would be possible with hypothetical transhuman and posthuman style technology. Although to be fair, plausibility is a different story, as it corresponds more to what feels like it might be possible or at least probable. But that will differ from person to person.
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04-21-2012, 03:29 PM | #168 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Re: Space Opera vs Hard Sci-Fi, personal vs realistic
Quote:
discovermagazine.com/2010/extreme-universe/18-do-it-yourself-basement-fusion |
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Tags |
sci fi, space opera |
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