Ogres around the world

[Xenarthral]

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen

I disagree. Giants are anthropophagi too, you know.

Not always and it is not a part of the definition of a giant.
For ogres, on the other hand, you can do worse as a definition than
"anthropophagous near or not-quite human".

Which covers, for example oni, cyclopses and wendigo, but not giants, trolls*, sasquatch and jinn.

*Which, as already noted, are hard to really describe when it comes to actual
folklore and folk tales. You can, for example, have long debates on whether
they have tails or not or whether they are ugly and weird-looking or incredibly
beautiful, citing numerous stories and descriptions in your favour regardless
of position.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Hans Rancke-Madsen

I disagree. Giants are anthropophagi too, you know.


So the claim that ogres only go back to an 18th Century book is false?


Hans

Not as such. The word Ogre may have first been used by Perrault in the 1600's, I don't know. The idea that we lable Ogre has been around for a very long time. Watch the show Criminal Minds and see the unsubs/ogres. Unsubs, or Unknow Subjects, the tag given to the criminals on the show may be new, but the sin is offen Cain's sin.

Wikipedia says the word "Ogre" is first known in 12th century France.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Xenarthral

*Which, as already noted, are hard to really describe when it comes to actual
folklore and folk tales. You can, for example, have long debates on whether
they have tails or not or whether they are ugly and weird-looking or incredibly
beautiful, citing numerous stories and descriptions in your favour regardless
of position.

This ambiguity of appearence goes with the multiple faces/heads meme. Ogres are two-faced. both is having alternate appearences and in being treacherous.

[Xenarthral]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

This ambiguity of appearence goes with the multiple faces/heads meme. Ogres are two-faced. both is having alternate appearences and in being treacherous.

Except that the difficulty in describing trolls is that some are generically big
and ugly (sometimes with multiple heads), some just have things like gigantic ears (the Plinian monopodes have been described as trolls), some look like normal humans, possibly with a tail and often better dressed than the farmer or hunter meeting them, and some are basically elves. No shapeshifting, glamour or deception involved.

Multiple heads/faces or being treacherous is not something I can recall being
in any way a common or defining trait of ogres.

[Astromancer]

One thing about Ogres is the fact that they can take, and are depicted as taking, normal human social roles. Innkeepers, farmers, townsmen, ect, can be Ogres. Bluebread (often described as an Ogre) formally offers marriage. In Perrault's Sleeping Beauty the Prince's mother is an Ogre. In the book English Fairy Tales you have a child eating ogre that seems to live in London an recieve mail and visitors like any other middle class person. Ogres can be human enough to live amoung humans unnoticed or at least tolerated.

Ogres are intimate monsters. Witches, Vampires, Werewolves, these aren't Ogres, but they can full the role of Ogre. Bandits, Pirates, Serial Killers, these aren't Ogres either, but Ogres can be any of these. And there are folktales were Pirates, Bandits, and Smugglers are held to be Ogres.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

One thing about Ogres is the fact that they can take, and are depicted as taking, normal human social roles. Innkeepers, farmers, townsmen, ect, can be Ogres. Bluebread (often described as an Ogre) formally offers marriage. In Perrault's Sleeping Beauty the Prince's mother is an Ogre. In the book English Fairy Tales you have a child eating ogre that seems to live in London an recieve mail and visitors like any other middle class person. Ogres can be human enough to live amoung humans unnoticed or at least tolerated.

The true fairy tale ogre is really just a human being with cannibalistic appetites and more than their fair share of charisma. The closest equivalent to them in FRP are the ogres from Glorantha.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The true fairy tale ogre is really just a human being with cannibalistic appetites and more than their fair share of charisma. The closest equivalent to them in FRP are the ogres from Glorantha.

Gamewise, I like the way RQ/Glorantha does ogres, sure.

I also like the ogres from Dragonlance and from Warhammer Fantasy.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The true fairy tale ogre is really just a human being with cannibalistic appetites and more than their fair share of charisma. The closest equivalent to them in FRP are the ogres from Glorantha.

I tend to consider those Wendigo possessed people.

I find it hard to get spooked if it's just another murderous man. The world is lousy with those. Make my monsters larger than life in some way.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I tend to consider those Wendigo possessed people.

Wendigo Psychosis?

[Anders]

There's a Wendigo in GURPS Fantasy and there's an excellent depiction in the movie Ravenous.