[MA] 'Tactical Counters' for other tactics/Manoeuvres/Techniques?

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

You're not inaccurately flailing about. You're just being more cautious, less inclined to take advantage of apparent opportunities that open your defenses, putting less force behind blows so you can you recover more easily, etc. If you can have "determination" in attack that trades some defense for attack, then it's not illogical for that to work the other way around. Just as DA gives you a sliding scale between "Attack" and "All-out Attack", a "Cautious" stance would give you a sliding scale between normal defenses (Attack) and All-out Defense.

The one in bold is a clear Defensive Attack. We also have Defensive Feint. The only thing that I could see a "attack penalty, defense bonus" modelling would be an attack from the very edge of measure ... and such attacks should probably have a damage penalty which again sounds like Defensive Attack.

There are some old threads about the problems that the Focused Defense option creates, but I don't have the links to hand.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

GURPS overvalues offense (by underpricing it) and undervalues defense (by overpricing it) intentionally, in an apparent desire to decrease the fight-to-defeat time of any given conflict.

General Example:
Burning Attack 3 [15] vs DR 10 [50].

Relevant Example:
I have DX 10, Broadsword (DX/A; DX +26; 36 or less), Technique Mastery (Broadsword Feint) and Feint (Broadsword) (Tech/H; Broadsword +6; 42 or less). I can take a deceptive attack maneuver, accept a -20 skill penalty to my attack and inflict a -10 active defense penalty on my opponent. My effective skill is (16 or less) after doing so.

I paid [112] points. My opponent may spend no greater amount of points than that, and may only spend those points on attributes, skills and techniques. (If my opponent buys exactly what I have, then my opponent's active defenses are "parry w/ broadsword, 21 or less", "block, 6 or less" and "dodge, 8 or less".)

What are my opponent's options?

• Defensive Grip gives +1 to the parry active defense.
• Defensive Attack gives +1 to the parry or block active defense.
• Defensive Feint gives -(their margin-of-success) to my next attack.
• Custom Offensive Own-Defense Techniques gives +1 to one active defense for every -2 to default.
  (Max of +2 for realistic techniques, max of +4 for cinematic techniques.)
• Custom Defensive Own-Defense Technique gives +1 to one other active defense for every -1 to default or +1 to all other active defenses for every -1 to default.
  (Max of +2 for realistic techniques, max of +4 for cinematic techniques.)
• All-Out Defense gives +2 to one active defense or allows two different active defenses to be applied.

[Ji ji]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

[*]So my opponent likes do Deceptive-Attack; what can I do to be more 'on alert' against such tricks? Other than going All-Out Defense and eventually losing anyway.

Evaluate maneuver on MA100 covers this.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ji ji

Evaluate maneuver on MA100 covers this.

Evaluate is generally a bad choice once the combat has already started.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Evaluate is generally a bad choice once the combat has already started.

Even with its defensive bonus introduced in MA, it's underpowered compared to most other combat actions. It becomes a little more useful if you're using Doug Cole's Last Gasp fatigue rules, as it's one of only two maneuvers that allows a character to replenish AP (the other being Do Nothing). Still, I've heard the suggestion of doubling the to-hit bonus provided by Evaluate, and that would go some way towards making it a viable option.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Even with its defensive bonus introduced in MA, it's underpowered compared to most other combat actions. It becomes a little more useful if you're using Doug Cole's Last Gasp fatigue rules, as it's one of only two maneuvers that allows a character to replenish AP (the other being Do Nothing). Still, I've heard the suggestion of doubling the to-hit bonus provided by Evaluate, and that would go some way towards making it a viable option.

It would, however, interact weirdly with Telegraphic Attack. Maybe it's a good thing, though.

[Ji ji]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Evaluate is generally a bad choice once the combat has already started.

As it is to focus on our opponent deceptive maneuvers instead of focusing on the global situation. Staying "on alert" on tricky maneuver has a name, that is distraction. It's a bad idea, and evaluate maneuver perfectly fit with it.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Ji ji

As it is to focus on our opponent deceptive maneuvers instead of focusing on the global situation. Staying "on alert" on tricky maneuver has a name, that is distraction. It's a bad idea, and evaluate maneuver perfectly fit with it.

Er, those have totally different reasons. Evaluate isn't a bad idea because it entails too much focus on one target. It's a bad idea because in most cases it is less effective against the one target than Attack would be.

[sclose1970]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

GURPS overvalues offense (by underpricing it) and undervalues defense (by overpricing it) intentionally, in an apparent desire to decrease the fight-to-defeat time of any given conflict.

General Example:
Burning Attack 3 [15] vs DR 10 [50].

Relevant Example:
I have DX 10, Broadsword (DX/A; DX +26; 36 or less), Technique Mastery (Broadsword Feint) and Feint (Broadsword) (Tech/H; Broadsword +6; 42 or less). I can take a deceptive attack maneuver, accept a -20 skill penalty to my attack and inflict a -10 active defense penalty on my opponent. My effective skill is (16 or less) after doing so.

I paid [112] points. My opponent may spend no greater amount of points than that, and may only spend those points on attributes, skills and techniques. (If my opponent buys exactly what I have, then my opponent's active defenses are "parry w/ broadsword, 21 or less", "block, 6 or less" and "dodge, 8 or less".)

What are my opponent's options?

• Defensive Grip gives +1 to the parry active defense.
• Defensive Attack gives +1 to the parry or block active defense.
• Defensive Feint gives -(their margin-of-success) to my next attack.
• Custom Offensive Own-Defense Techniques gives +1 to one active defense for every -2 to default.
  (Max of +2 for realistic techniques, max of +4 for cinematic techniques.)
• Custom Defensive Own-Defense Technique gives +1 to one other active defense for every -1 to default or +1 to all other active defenses for every -1 to default.
  (Max of +2 for realistic techniques, max of +4 for cinematic techniques.)
• All-Out Defense gives +2 to one active defense or allows two different active defenses to be applied.

Assuming just base skills without Advantages that would enhance defenses, i.e. Combat Reflexes and Enhanced Parry, a parry score of 11 after taking a -10 modifier is hardly poor. Given the few enhancements listed above, it doesn't take much to nudge that parry into "pretty reliable" territory. At such high skill levels, even taking a -4 towards a theoretical defensive technique really doesn't put much of a dent in your offensive capability, while each nudge up from a score of 11 really increases your odds on defense.