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Old 08-12-2017, 01:11 PM   #1
Anders
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Default Question about Fanaticism

If I take Fanaticism for something, that means that I will follow any moral code required for that. Do I get points for that as well?

For instance, take a Fanatic Franciscan who really follows their vow of poverty. Do they get points for Fanaticism and for DoF: Asceticism?
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:51 PM   #2
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If I take Fanaticism for something, that means that I will follow any moral code required for that. Do I get points for that as well?

For instance, take a Fanatic Franciscan who really follows their vow of poverty. Do they get points for Fanaticism and for DoF: Asceticism?
It depends. I would extrapolate from the text of Vow (p. B161) which states that if your Vow can be represented using a different disadvantage, you only get the points for one of them (but which one is your choice). Essentially, it's a specific note against double dipping. In your example, DoF: Asceticism is part and parcel of being a Franciscan, so it's also part and parcel of being a Fanatic Franciscan (as are the requirements of chastity and obedience), so you should take the points for one or the other but not both.

If, on the other hand, you were to adopt a moral code that was optional to what you're being Fanatic about, you could probably collect the points for both. For example, you could be a Fanatic Christian. As a fanatic Christian, you do not have to be in Holy Orders (the priesthood, a monastic or mendicant order, etc.) and as such, you do not have to take the vow of poverty, chastity and obedience. If you were to take the vow anyway, in that instance, you should be able to collect the points for DoF: Asceticism as well.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Question about Fanaticism

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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
If I take Fanaticism for something, that means that I will follow any moral code required for that. Do I get points for that as well?

For instance, take a Fanatic Franciscan who really follows their vow of poverty. Do they get points for Fanaticism and for DoF: Asceticism?
Yes.

First of all, fanaticism demands unwavering loyalty unto death. So, for example, a local villager might have Fanaticism (Fransicans) and would gladly die for his local monastery, but would not be ascetic.

On the other hand, you cannot fanatically devoted to your Discipline of Faith, because if that was an option, it would imply that people without fanaticism would somehow be less devoted to their disciplines of faith. A disadvantage is, broadly speaking, absolute. If you have a vow of poverty, you need to fulfill that vow all the time, not just when you feel like it. If that vow of poverty means that you'll die, then so be it. That's how it goes. If that seems extreme, note that this is often the consequence of vows to do things like never use a gun in a gun-heavy setting. They're disadvantages for a reason!

So, if you have DoF: Ascetism, then you're ascetic, period. If you violate that, the GM can penalize you, or demand you buy it off, but he can do the same with fanaticism too ("Wait, the friar wants me to do WHAT? Suddenly, I've decided I'm not fanatical anymore. Here's your 15 points, GM"). If you're fanatical, you're fanatical, you're willing to die for something and slavishly obedient to that thing (a fanatical franciscan is more than just really ascetic, he's deeply loyal to the head of his monastery, to the tenets of his faith; good luck getting him to spit on a cross!).

Your broader question is if your fanaticism automatically encompasses traits covered by what you're fanatical towards. Say you're a fanatical Truther, which is a movement that's devoted to always speaking the truth. Do you get Truthfulness? I'd say so, and the Fanaticism more applies to the movement as a whole ("I'll die before I betray my fellow truthers, and also I'll take a bullet for a fellow truther, and if the leader of the truther movement told me to leave my wife, I totally would!")
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: Question about Fanaticism

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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
If I take Fanaticism for something, that means that I will follow any moral code required for that. Do I get points for that as well?

For instance, take a Fanatic Franciscan who really follows their vow of poverty. Do they get points for Fanaticism and for DoF: Asceticism?
Yes they do. After all there are Fanatics who aren't Ascetics. The only automatic code that every Fanatic has is "I am willing to accept certain death for something"
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:17 PM   #5
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Yes they do. After all there are Fanatics who aren't Ascetics. The only automatic code that every Fanatic has is "I am willing to accept certain death for something"
It is notable that the word in normal usage means "intemperate zealot". In the Gurps usage you give for instance, Beren has Fanatic(Luthien) and vice-versa and Frodo has Fanatic(Free Peoples of Middle Earth). But they are far from the normal picture.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:06 PM   #6
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It is notable that the word in normal usage means "intemperate zealot". In the Gurps usage you give for instance, Beren has Fanatic(Luthien) and vice-versa and Frodo has Fanatic(Free Peoples of Middle Earth). But they are far from the normal picture.
Better yet, a specific GURPS example: in GURPS Lensman, all the Lensmen have the Fanatic: Civilization Disad. This is actually an excellent way to represent the 'incorruptible' trait of the Lensman characters, they are incorruptible in precisely the same sense that any other true fanatic is 'incorruptible', i.e. you can't sway him from what he considers his duty.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:52 PM   #7
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It is notable that the word in normal usage means "intemperate zealot". In the Gurps usage you give for instance, Beren has Fanatic(Luthien) and vice-versa and Frodo has Fanatic(Free Peoples of Middle Earth). But they are far from the normal picture.
Um...no? Well I don't know about Beren but Frodo doesn't start his quest with that kind of large scale dedication and he certainly doesn't continue it after finishing up. He retires to a quiet life instead. This is not what Fanatics generally do.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:26 AM   #8
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Um...no? Well I don't know about Beren but Frodo doesn't start his quest with that kind of large scale dedication and he certainly doesn't continue it after finishing up. He retires to a quiet life instead. This is not what Fanatics generally do.
Beren and Luthien are debatable, Frodo probably does not have it. I'd say what Frodo has is a Sense of Duty.

Feanor, though, surely has Fanaticism. Probably Celebrimbor, too. Thorin might have been developing it toward the end. Sméagol...now that one is a good question.
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Old 08-13-2017, 06:50 AM   #9
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Sméagol...now that one is a good question.
Sméagol definitely has an Obsession about The One Ring.
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Old 08-13-2017, 07:02 AM   #10
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Default Re: Question about Fanaticism

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Um...no? Well I don't know about Beren but Frodo doesn't start his quest with that kind of large scale dedication and he certainly doesn't continue it after finishing up. He retires to a quiet life instead. This is not what Fanatics generally do.
Yes but the criterion you gave was "willingness to undergo certain death" and effectively going to hell with the practical impossibility of coming out qualifies.

For the matter of that, if we take it to extremes, anyone who is not working on an immortality elixir is a fanatic as clearly we are all certain to die.
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