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Old 06-28-2018, 10:54 PM   #431
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Default Re: Biker gear for Iron Order MC cover identities

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I guess I can see how the outer layer would be good for abrasion resistance, but my concern is that losing or leaving a jacket worn over concealed armour, load-bearing gear and weapons is a lot more likely than a support garment worn under these.
Well, sure. But them's the breaks when you're trying to roll subtle.

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Taylor's views on social equality and embracing differences are somewhere to the left of Martin Luther King and Harvey Milk.
So, reinforced chaps are in?

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What kind of penalty to Guns would they give?
None as long as he takes the time to get used to firing, reloading, etc while wearing them. Otherwise I'd throw a -1 Familiarity penalty at him.

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Also, two PCs have leather stuff, seemed like there should be some variation.
Denim is fine. If you guys can get custom gear, it can be kevlar lined and be as good as a thick leather jacket I suspect (DR 2 Flexible).

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Besides, is the leather actually protective?
Next time you're at a decent coat store take a good look at leather riding jackets. Yeah, there's a reason they were worn despite the heat long before kevlar was invented.

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Isn't it the kevlar or other material inserts that actually provide protection?
That's all just 'up' armoring.

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Yeah, I think fancy boots will be Taylor's idea of a fancy getup.
A singular extra fancy thing that can easily be ditched is also a great piece of a disguise.

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No, the DR is for the inevitable fall from a speeding bike and painful tumbling over hard ground, ankle-snapping stones and flesh-tearing gravel.
I recommend learning Breakfall and Catfall.

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Ok, but boots that look like cowboy boots, allow controlling a motorcycle without a penalty and give DR 2* to the foot, do these give a penalty to any of Acrobatics, Climbing, Jumping, Running or Stealth?
Off the rack? I'd probably hit them with a straight penalty to Climb and Stealth and a Familiarity penalty to Running, Jumping, and Acrobatics.

I used to run, jump, and flip about wearing jump boots, so it's not difficult at all. However... climbing is harder as the boot is too rigid to conform to surfaces and a solid sole is always bad for Stealth (I disagree with High-Tech, jungle Boots should have a penalty to Stealth).

However... as High-Tech gives at best a +1 and at worst a -1 (for Blast Boots!).... they're probably not penalized at all. If you feel the extra +1 DR in crashes is worth a penalty, I'd lay it at -1 (hard penalty for Stealth and Climbing, Fam pen for the others).

Now, saying that. If Chase has the time he can take his fancy hard rubber soled boots to a boot smith* and get gum soles put on to replace the hard rubber. This won't affect DR, it will drop the penalty for Climbing and Stealth completely, and it will drastically, negatively affect durability. The soles won't last more than a few months of the wear and tear of riding.


* Words (and google) are failing me.

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It's probably best to plan for one or more tumbles from a motorcycle at higher speed than is entirely safe...
Gravity... is a harsh mistress.

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Our GM feels we were entirely too cautious on Jewell Island and is threatening some proper superhero action. Apparently, being more awesome than any real high-speed, low-drag special operator is overkill if we're just going to confront mundane challenges in a sane way. So, well, we're in a valley that has been the murder capital of the world for a while and it appears that everyone hiding in terror is hostile in some way.
Sounds exciting!

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We're on a blind date with destiny and it looks like she's ordered the lobster.
Hello...I got the poison lobster here.
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Old 06-28-2018, 11:22 PM   #432
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

How effective is a jacket like this one?

http://www.flyracing.com/product/str...cket/562/black

I have a similar jacket I've always thought seemed pretty cool, is a Fly Racing model of some stripe

It isn't denim or leather if want a different material
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Old 06-29-2018, 04:01 AM   #433
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
How effective is a jacket like this one?

http://www.flyracing.com/product/str...cket/562/black

I have a similar jacket I've always thought seemed pretty cool, is a Fly Racing model of some stripe

It isn't denim or leather if want a different material
Well, when I say denim jacket, I mean something like one of these. Either incorporating armour inserts or lined with kevlar, Dyneema or polymer fibers. The Sweep Yukon aramid reinforced denim jacket looks about right and doesn't cost too much, compared to a traditional leather biking jacket.

I wonder how much of a DR it would give against the damage of falling of a bike.
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Old 06-29-2018, 04:23 AM   #434
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Default Re: Biker gear for Iron Order MC cover identities

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Well, sure. But them's the breaks when you're trying to roll subtle.
I guess.

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
So, reinforced chaps are in?
I'm guessing that reinforced denim jeans are more likely, purely because most outlaw bikers seem to eshew any more visible protection than helmet, jacket and gloves.

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
None as long as he takes the time to get used to firing, reloading, etc while wearing them. Otherwise I'd throw a -1 Familiarity penalty at him.
I think Tactical Shooting has basically any gloves except custom-made shooting gloves give a penalty to Guns. Which I can see, as you never see anything attempt a long-distance shot while pulling the trigger through a glove.

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Denim is fine. If you guys can get custom gear, it can be kevlar lined and be as good as a thick leather jacket I suspect (DR 2 Flexible).

Next time you're at a decent coat store take a good look at leather riding jackets. Yeah, there's a reason they were worn despite the heat long before kevlar was invented.
I was considering something like the Speed and Strength Overhaul jacket or one of the ones linked in the last post.

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
I recommend learning Breakfall and Catfall.
Breakfall defaults from Acrobatics and Judo, meaning Chase has a decent score without points in it. I can't rightly recall, but I strongly suspect his Judo is high enough for a default Breakfall level that fails only on a 17-18.


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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Off the rack? I'd probably hit them with a straight penalty to Climb and Stealth and a Familiarity penalty to Running, Jumping, and Acrobatics.

I used to run, jump, and flip about wearing jump boots, so it's not difficult at all. However... climbing is harder as the boot is too rigid to conform to surfaces and a solid sole is always bad for Stealth (I disagree with High-Tech, jungle Boots should have a penalty to Stealth).

However... as High-Tech gives at best a +1 and at worst a -1 (for Blast Boots!).... they're probably not penalized at all. If you feel the extra +1 DR in crashes is worth a penalty, I'd lay it at -1 (hard penalty for Stealth and Climbing, Fam pen for the others).
A penalty to Stealth and Climbing is horrible, but I guess Chase has to accept it, unless it would be plausible for the undefined purchasing person to have obtained 'cowboy' motorcycle boots that are at least as versatile as combat boots, for patrolling and suchlike.

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Now, saying that. If Chase has the time he can take his fancy hard rubber soled boots to a boot smith* and get gum soles put on to replace the hard rubber. This won't affect DR, it will drop the penalty for Climbing and Stealth completely, and it will drastically, negatively affect durability. The soles won't last more than a few months of the wear and tear of riding.
We don't have that kind of time. Well, more to the point, Taylor already filled every minute of the day they had for preparation with tasks that had to do with ensuring that the others had everything they needed, were comfortable and as safe as he could make them.

The outfits were arranged by someone off-screen, mostly, to fit established cover identities. There was some little spare cash and a few hours to shop, but unless someone at the military base Fort Bliss could replace the soles, there wouldn't have been time to wait for it. I don't know if the proud tradition of Tony Lama Boots was carried on at Fort Bliss, but I somehow suspect that 'cobbler' is no longer a recognised MOS in the US Army.

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
* Words (and google) are failing me.
Might you be looking for the terms cobbler or cordwainer?
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Old 06-29-2018, 05:19 PM   #435
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Default Re: Biker gear for Iron Order MC cover identities

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Now, saying that. If Chase has the time he can take his fancy hard rubber soled boots to a boot smith*

* Words (and google) are failing me.
I think "cobbler" is what your grasping for. Perhaps "cordwainer".

Aw, ninja'd.

And... actually one of the few places to find one nowadays (other than those making ludicrously expensive high-end bespoke products) is near military bases. Decent combat boots are expensive enough, and your average private poor enough, that troops actually do get them re-soled on occasion. The really high-tech ones like Rockys are difficult to re-sole, though, so even these guys are getting rare.

But no, it isn't an MOS. (Though parachute riggers can do some damned surprising things.) It's done by a civilian off-post, like a lot of laundries back in the day when we had to starch and press our uniforms; I have to assume that a lot of those are out of business, now, but they used to be everywhere back in the days of BDUs.

But anyway, I would say that if there is a place to find someone to re-sole a boot nowadays, it is near a large military base. The larger the better. Fort Hood will have one available, for sure, but even here at Fort Carson you see a guy in the lobby at the PX doing boot re-soling every now and then.

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Old 06-29-2018, 06:54 PM   #436
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Default Re: Biker gear for Iron Order MC cover identities

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Besides, is the leather actually protective?
Against weapons not really, but at worst it's still better than skin -- look at the thickness of the leather. Think of losing at least that much skin, and probably 2-3x that much skin. Which would you rather have happen?
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Old 06-30-2018, 01:43 AM   #437
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Default Re: Biker gear for Iron Order MC cover identities

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But anyway, I would say that if there is a place to find someone to re-sole a boot nowadays, it is near a large military base. The larger the better. Fort Hood will have one available, for sure, but even here at Fort Carson you see a guy in the lobby at the PX doing boot re-soling every now and then.
Actually... most combat boots cannot be resoled. So... there really haven't been much of a call for (scroll back down real quick) cobblers near military bases in the US for a long time.

And boots have been so cheap at the px for so long, that I doubt anyone in the military would bother getting a pair repaired when they can get new ones for roughly the same price.
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Old 06-30-2018, 07:28 AM   #438
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Default Re: Biker gear for Iron Order MC cover identities

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Against weapons not really, but at worst it's still better than skin -- look at the thickness of the leather. Think of losing at least that much skin, and probably 2-3x that much skin. Which would you rather have happen?
Well, I'm thinking about it in comparison with the same weight of denim motorcycle jacket reinforced with kevlar or similar materials at the most likely points of impact.
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Old 06-30-2018, 08:20 AM   #439
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Default Re: Biker gear for Iron Order MC cover identities

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And... actually one of the few places to find one nowadays (other than those making ludicrously expensive high-end bespoke products) is near military bases. Decent combat boots are expensive enough, and your average private poor enough, that troops actually do get them re-soled on occasion. The really high-tech ones like Rockys are difficult to re-sole, though, so even these guys are getting rare.

But no, it isn't an MOS. (Though parachute riggers can do some damned surprising things.) It's done by a civilian off-post, like a lot of laundries back in the day when we had to starch and press our uniforms; I have to assume that a lot of those are out of business, now, but they used to be everywhere back in the days of BDUs.

But anyway, I would say that if there is a place to find someone to re-sole a boot nowadays, it is near a large military base. The larger the better. Fort Hood will have one available, for sure, but even here at Fort Carson you see a guy in the lobby at the PX doing boot re-soling every now and then.
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Actually... most combat boots cannot be resoled. So... there really haven't been much of a call for (scroll back down real quick) cobblers near military bases in the US for a long time.

And boots have been so cheap at the px for so long, that I doubt anyone in the military would bother getting a pair repaired when they can get new ones for roughly the same price.
Okay, to define exactly the time available to have boots re-soled, the characters arrived at Biggs Army Airfield at about 1400 hours Monday, the 6th of February 2017.

They were driven to a building at Fort Bliss where they received briefings and where the outfits they were to wear were available. It was there that minor additions and alterations were suggested, with anyone leaving to arrange it at about 1530 or so. And we left Fort Bliss at 0800 on Tuesday morning, meaning that any alterations would have had to be done during that Monday afternoon and the boots picked up either that night or while driving out of town Tuesday morning.

After the briefings, three characters, two PCs and an NPC, were allowed to go out to shop for stuff that wasn't in the issue kit and wasn't available through bureaucratic means to the DHS elements on the base, but still seemed important. The PC team leader stayed behind to arrange for various stuff that was available at the base, as well as going over the briefing materials and communication details with the support personnel at the HQ. And one PC went out alone to shop and do mysterious things, at least partly just to see if he was being followed.

I imagine that the boots that Taylor received would have been something like these Roper boots (minus the CCW design) or these Mayura boots.

A penalty to Climbing would have been undesirable. A penalty to Stealth is pretty much unacceptable. If at all possible, Taylor would have wanted to avoid it. And El Paso has a long history of cobblers, shoe and boot repair, with the traditional ones called zapateros.

There are three stores close to Fort Bliss. None of them, however, is open at 0800 in the morning and so the re-soling would only have been practical if they could have done it over those two free hours Monday evening, between 1530 and 1730. That would require that all other work be set aside to work on the boots.

Doesn't seem credible, especially as no one from Onyx Rain cared all that much about what Taylor wanted and they certainly weren't going to pay some ridiculous sum to get an emergency re-soling for him. And Taylor didn't have the money, he only got a total of $200 allowance to buy everything not specifically issued by Onyx Rain or his team leader.

So, unless there is some brand of common cowboy-style motorcycle boots that comes without a Stealth penalty by default, the odds are that Taylor had to accept unsuitable footwear.
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Old 06-30-2018, 08:40 AM   #440
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Default Re: Biker gear for Iron Order MC cover identities

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Actually... most combat boots cannot be resoled. So... there really haven't been much of a call for (scroll back down real quick) cobblers near military bases in the US for a long time.

And boots have been so cheap at the px for so long, that I doubt anyone in the military would bother getting a pair repaired when they can get new ones for roughly the same price.
No, the newer high-tech ones like Rockys are hard to re-sole. As I said. But most can be, and are. Corcorans are still popular, for example. (Though no longer in black.) I have a pair. Also as I said, there is a guy who comes to the Fort Carson PX every now and then and re-soles boots.

Boots cost over $100. Some approach $200! That's not cheap for an E3 with a family!

And actually, I hadn't considered cowboy boots. There have to be cobblers who re-sole some of those more expensive boots.

But, yeah, your timeline seems tight.

Last edited by acrosome; 06-30-2018 at 08:44 AM.
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