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Old 06-11-2018, 01:21 AM   #411
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Kevlar reinforced denims, most commonly jeans are a common accessory for bike riders. "Motor cross protection" as keywords in a search should show you some more options for protective gear.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:06 AM   #412
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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Originally Posted by acrosome View Post
I just realized that, arguably, Apache Tears could be an "onyx rain". :)
Cool!

Are they found in the Chihuahua Desert?
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:29 PM   #413
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

Oh I had missed this reply completely, so very late replies.

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
2 cm thick plates are clearly not very concealable, except maybe from very inattentive and unprofessional opposition... and when you are wearing arctic wear.
You can also hide such things fairly easily under a full motorcycle jacket. (Not the skintight or leather jacket styles)

Quote:
The thickness of non-metallic body armour is a point very much in favour of high-hardness steel trauma plates, even if they are inferior protection for their weight. A 6-7mm thick steel trauma plate can provide Level III protection, but actually might be concealed, at least more plausibly than ceramic plates three times as thick.
Yeah, in GURPS resolution that might be the case, but metal rifle plates have the problem with fragments in real life. While getting hit with such a fragment is definitely preferable to being hit by the bullet, it is still a risk.


Quote:
Aside, how are you defining 'full biker gear'?
Helmet, jacket, pants, boots, gloves with all the armor pieces I described.

Quote:
My character would very much like to be wearing a lot of protective wear against motorcycle crashes and he wouldn't mind having some protection against being shot.* The problem is that he's supposed to look like an Iron Order MC biker, who while technically not outlaw bikers, dress very much like them.

What kind of protective wear can be worn while still selling that cover ID?

I've assumed a half-helmet, gloves, either combat boots or cowboy boots and elbow and knee protectors that go under the clothes, so aren't readily noticable.**

Could he wear anything else?
There are both real and fake leather jackets that have light protective panels while looking mostly like normal leather jackets.

There are also "rider jeans" that have the abrasion protection and such but lot less impact protection.

The same goes for boots, there are riding boots that look like cowboy boots or work boots, but are riding boots.

Overall the "look cool" pieces are quite easily available in most motorcycle gear shops and they are a LOT better than nothing, but less than a full gear that looks more "dorky".

Quote:
Yeah, everyone is going to carry motorcycle gloves, at least. They'll either need to be quickly removable or useable as shooting gloves. I'm guessing that the former is more likely than the latter, but both would seem somewhat incompatible with ideal protection in a serious crash.

Any suggestions for good gloves that can be quickly shed or could be worn during action-adventure scenes other than driving motorcycles without significant penalties?
I can handle My Glock just fine with the lightest set of biker gloves I have. Those gloves are thin summer gloves with protective pieces on the outsides of fingers and over knuckles. But those pieces do not protrude all that much.
The only problem I have is occasionally pulling the finger away from the trigger one specific ridge tries to get stuck, but putting the finger to the trigger, pressing the trigger, working the slide and so on work just fine.

Of course those gloves are less protective than the racing style gloves.

Quote:
Which armour panels, if any, could be concealed under civilian clothing, specifically something suitable for someone affecting outlaw biker attire, i.e. jeans, leather MC cut and some other suitable upper body wear, hoodie, jeans jacket, leather jacket or sweater?
Full style panels: really only the back panel as all the other tings add bulk to places where the body is already bulging out. But as I listed earlier there exists gear that looks like leather jackets and similar than have thinner and less protective panels, but ones that are definitely a lot better than nothing and better than just normal leather jacket or boots and similar.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:01 AM   #414
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Cool!

Are they found in the Chihuahua Desert?
Anywhere there have been stratovolcanoes, I think. I found a website that says "throughout the American west and Mexico", but can't find the Chihuahuan Desert specifically.

But I read some more. Apache Tears are obsidian, whereas onyx is a type of chalcedony. So, close but no cigar.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:37 AM   #415
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

One key thing is that footwear needs a stalwart enough toe area to shift with, my favorite shoes do not

I've heard enough horror stories of laces getting caught in a motorcycle I won't wear anything with laces on a bike, so either sufficiently stalwart loafers or clogs, or riding boots

I prefer wearing Velcro strap armored greaves over heavier weight chinos than jeans or armored riding pants, and I can wear the greaves over the pants if going trail riding for extra layering. My jacket feels perfectly comfortable on a bike, but not to stand up and walk in, the pants and boots the same way.

Also if wearing boots need proper boot socks

Of all the boot socks I've tried (every time I encounter a new type at the store I buy a pair) I personally still like Wolverine ones best even over pricier models

. . . . And curses, I don't see the socks I like online now so they may be discontinued, it's been a while since I bought any
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:33 PM   #416
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
... sufficiently stalwart loafers or clogs...
I just twinged so hard. And then my mind pictured all those bike riders I see everyday wearing flip-flops or sandals... /mega-twinge


As for laces, properly tied down and tucked and you should be fine. I never had an issue, but I wore combat boots and tucked the laces into the boot top (I do this with my shoes and boots still, it was never a 'riding thing' but a "I hate laces floppin about everywhere" thing).
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Old 06-27-2018, 06:21 PM   #417
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

I never claimed to be particularly bright, but I admit I hate putting on boots, especially my actual armored racing boots, and I don't like walking in them either, so particularly for hopping around town I'd wear stout material clogs or loafers . . . . . but nothing to flimsy as then I'd never get into first gear, my pain tolerance isn't up to shifting into first without sufficient material protection

When I was wearing combat boots didn't overlap with when I was riding bikes, and I don't think I'd have been able to keep them shiny enough if I wore them on a bike anyway

Im not sure how your supposed to shift in flip flops or sandals, I'd think would tear great bloody divots from your foot just getting into first, but somehow people do it

I actually recently bought a brand new pair of riding boots that I hope I like, but my bike has been laid up and I haven't gotten to try riding in them
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:52 PM   #418
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Default Re: [Modern Firepower] Technothriller gear for secret DHS team in 2017

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
When I was wearing combat boots didn't overlap with when I was riding bikes, and I don't think I'd have been able to keep them shiny enough if I wore them on a bike anyway
Are they supposed to be shiny? Mine were never shiny... beat-to-hell, ragged, worn out looking things from the moment I put them on until they'd finally wear completely through the soles or blow out the sides...

Quote:
Im not sure how your supposed to shift in flip flops or sandals, I'd think would tear great bloody divots from your foot just getting into first, but somehow people do it
Street bikes often have soft rubber covers on the shifter.

But for me the cringe comes just imagining the horror if one them laid that bike down at any reasonable highway speed. As often they also wear shorts and t-shirts...
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Old 06-28-2018, 05:14 AM   #419
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Default Biker gear for Iron Order MC cover identities

Instead of responding individually to a series of posts touching on motorcycle apparel and protective gear, I thought I'd try to pull together the relevant information. I'm basically looking for game stats, but I'd love to get a link to specific pieces of gear that knowledgeable forumites suggest.

As has been stated in this thread before, two of the PCs are impersonating members of the Iron Order MC, providing security to a Yanqui doctor travelling across the Rio Grande for unspecified, apparently shady purposes.

The cover IDs are not meant to allow the PCs to infiltrate an ongoing criminal concern, merely provide a reasonable cover story when faced with casual interest from Mexican law enforcement or security forces, as well as criminal elements aside from those the PCs are there to meet with. Basically, it's a semi-plausible reason for them to be meeting dubious people at out-of-the-way places where usually only narcotraficante want to go, as well as a justification for them to bribe themselves out of trouble with locals.

The Iron Order MC are actually not an outlaw biker club, having a high percentage of members with law enforcement and military background, but they dress very much like a One-Percenter club. Given that Mexico has an enormous number of private security contractors, not all of whom are legitimately licensed, it's not implausible for a shady doctor travelling over the El Paso/Ciudad Juarez border to hire a couple of tough guys from the Order Order MC to give him a feeling of security while he obtains cheaper off-brand prescription pharmaceuticals.

One of the biker identities is actually a prepared cover ID for ICE/HSI (and allied agencies) undercover operations. As with other US agencies that make use of prepared cover identities, the ICE has people whose day jobs are making and maintaining fake Internet presences for cover IDs. The other cover identity is a real person, one who looks vaguely similar to the PC who'll be taking on his role. Meeting someone who actually knows him is a remote possibility, considering that the real person was a small time miscreant who is not known to have had any contacts on the Mexican side of the border.

At the moment, it's been established, more or less, what the PCs are wearing and carrying, but the actual DR and other protective value of their biking gear hasn't come up. I'd like forumites to suggest stats of the ensembles and what specific real world brands or models, if any, the described gear ought to be.

The PCs had some minor input on personal pieces of flair, but the outfits were mostly chosen by some ICE/HSI bureaucrat who handles procuring appropriate clothing for undercover agents in the area. The primary consideration was appearing authentic as a current or former military member who belonged to the Iron Order MC.

Bike safety was a secondary concern, not irrelevant, just not worth sacrificing the right look for. And, obviously, they're not made of money, so no custom-made, solid titanium awesome-armour, just a level of quality that made sense for an enlisted soldier who spent a significant chunk of his discretionary income on his biker hobby.

Aiden Murphy (cover ID of PC Danny O'Toole): Aiden Murphy is a prepared ICE/HSI cover ID for Agent O'Toole on his first undercover assignment. The online legend is not extensive and to a professional, will bear tell-tale signs of having been prepared in advance for an agent of a certain age range, ethnicity and vague appearance and then had pictures and personal details installed afterwards, but it should be enough for a random sighting by curious Mexican cops or cartel halcones ('falcons', i.e. lookouts).

Murphy is a wheeled vehicle mechanic (91B) of the 47th Brigade Support Battalion/2nd BCT/1st Armored Division, stationed at Ft. Bliss, TX. By necessity, the cover ID pretty much has to be from Boston (or somewhere with an Irish-American population with a similar accent), not specifically because Danny O'Toole couldn't fake a different accent, but because O'Toole has taken some care to appear more straight-laced and uncomplicated to his superiors than he actually is.

Biker outfit: It's established that as Aiden Murphy, O'Toole has a set of Iron Order MC cuts and a motorcycle half-helmet of some sort (tentatively penciled in as a Sena Cavalry Half Helmet, for the cool Bluetooth link). For some reason, though, when called upon to dress in something else than a G-Man suit, O'Toole's player decided that he'd put on a track suit.

I imagine that he'd also have either combat boots that also work as bike boots or even proper armoured boots. No specification on whether he has a leather jacket or something else to wear under his biker cut once he stops trying to look like a Russian gopnik. If the player doesn't specify, I'd assume that he'd have at least a set of leathers that look like a biker might wear them and give decent DR against abrasion damage, because I doubt O'Toole likes being hurt any more than other people.

Aiden Murphy carries a Taurus PT92 (Beretta 92 clone) in an Uncle Mike's Kodra Nylon Inside-The-Pant Holster and a single spare magazine in an Uncle Mike's mag case. He'll want to wear pants and a jacket that allows concealing such a big gun, but avoid making it too difficult to draw quickly. And while O'Toole is hardly 'Quick-Draw' McGraw, he's actually really good at the Holdout skill*, so his CCW preparation ought to be professional.

*Craftiness Talent 4 and 4 points in Holdout, as well as IQ 14, gives him Holdout at skill 19.

Caleb Joshua 'C.J.' Everett (cover ID of PC Chase Taylor): A former infantryman (11B) of the 1st Btn/6th Regiment/2nd BCT/1st Armored Division, at Ft. Bliss, TX, C.J. Everett hails from Huntsville, Alabama. A straw purchase of six AR-15 type rifles for an acquaintance in El Paso got Everett arrested at his girlfriend's residence by the El Paso PD and ICE agents in 2015 and possession of an ounce of weed and half a gram of crystal meth got him a six year jail sentence and a dishonourable discharge.

To an Alabama native, Taylor's 'Bama Black Belt Crenshaw county drawl doesn't sound anything like the strongly rhotic, north Alabama, Appalachian accent spoken by the actual C.J. Everett, but the planners at Onyx Rain are confident that no Mexican narcotraficante can tell the difference (especially considering that Onyx Rain staff from New York, Ohio, California, etc. can't really hear anything but 'redneck' when either of them speaks).

Everett wears jeans and a denim jacket under the leather Iron Order MC cut. He'll wear a black or grey tank top or shooter shirt under his jacket and probably a hooded sweatshirt as well (because it's cold). If practical, he'd like to conceal a Second Chance Monarch Summit Level IIIA vest as part of his outfit, but abrasion protection is actually more of a concern. Any kind of protective inserts in the clothes that won't look out of place would be welcome. What kind of DR and weight would be plausible?

Everett's boots are cowboy boots, but if they can be designed for riding a bike while looking like cowboy boots, that would be great.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:19 AM   #420
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Default Re: Biker gear for Iron Order MC cover identities

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If practical, he'd like to conceal a Second Chance Monarch Summit Level IIIA vest as part of his outfit, but abrasion protection is actually more of a concern.
Under a jacket that's fine (even hanging open if he's wearing a couple of shirts, like a nice high undershirt and a plaid, or if it's cold enough a hoodie). But his cut (vest) is a different story. Most guys don't go for high button up cuts, or if they do, they wear them hanging open when they aren't riding (it's for ease of reaching for anything holstered under them).

Quote:
Everett's boots are cowboy boots, but if they can be designed for riding a bike while looking like cowboy boots, that would be great.
Cowboy style boots are fine for riding. They might be uncomfortable if Chase isn't used to wearing them (I can't wear them at all for instance), but if he can wear them for hours without feeling cramped or getting footsore, he can ride with them.

In fact they have 'cowboy' style riding boots, which have the thicker leather and non-skid soles of riding boots, but the shape and style of a cowboy boot.
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