Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2009, 07:38 PM   #1
PK
Assistant GURPS Line Editor
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default GURPS Ultra-Lite -- thoughts

If you don't know what I'm talking about, go here and download it, print it, fold it, cut it, and read it. (In that order, trust me.)

So, this was a bit of a surprise. At first, I'm thinking that this is a one-page cheat sheet for players running pre-built characters. Y'know, get rid of all of the char building stuff and you can simplify GURPS down to a page, sure.

Then I read it.

First impressions? This isn't GURPS. I mean, it's really a unique game "inspired by" GURPS. The combat system is drastically overhauled, the levels don't equate evenly to character points (i.e., you can't translate between GURPS and GUL evenly), you can now succeed on any roll (even with a target number of -8) if you roll a 3, and the whole concept of disadvantages is gone.

Now, that doesn't mean it's a bad system. I think this is a fine system for rule-lite gaming, sure. But I'm not sure if it'll do more good or more harm when trying to upconvert players to real GURPS after playing GUL.

Still, this is clearly marked as a work in progress, so that's good. I'm going to muse on it some more and see what suggestions come to mind. (Well, one already has: Get rid of the "A 3 on the dice always succeeds" rule -- that's just goofy.)
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:09 PM   #2
PK
Assistant GURPS Line Editor
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: GURPS Ultra-Lite -- thoughts

A breakdown of what a level in GUL is worth:
  • Either ST+2 [20] or ST+4 [40]
  • DX+2 [40]
  • IQ+2 [40]
  • Either HT+2 [20] or HT+4 [40]
  • A Wildcard! skill at Att-2 [6] or +4 to a Wildcard! skill [42 or 48]
  • Charisma 8 [40]
  • An undetermined level of Wealth, eyeballed as being Very Wealthy [30], since you can use it to buy Very Fine gear (x20 cost), in essence.
That's a pretty wide range, anywhere from 6 to 48 points per level. Interestingly, that whole spread occurs in the cost of the skill levels. The variation is surprising, and problematic. Take these two "4 level" GUL chars and check out their actual cost in GURPS:

Abe: Normal ST, Normal DX, Weak IQ, Normal HT, Wealthy, four skills at level 1 [14]

Bob: Normal ST, Agile DX, Normal IQ, Weak HT, Charismatic, one skill at level 3 [156]

Seriously. You can have a 14-point PC adventuring in the same party as a 156-point PC, both built on the same number of levels. Now, that could be called a feature if you want, but it's not a feature of GURPS.

I'd prefer to have a set point cost per level in mind, and then work to try to hit that target. Being a little off is okay, but the spread needs to be tightened.

For example, what about a target of 35 points? That's doable. First, fix ST and HT so that Weak = 7 instead of 8. Then define the first level of a skill as giving it to you at Att+1 [36]. Further levels add +3 [36]. With those simple changes, you've now tightened up the value of a level so that its value is between 30 to 40 points without exception. That's a spread of 10 points instead of a spread of 42!
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:22 PM   #3
Paul
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Austin
Default Re: GURPS Ultra-Lite -- thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty
(Well, one already has: Get rid of the "A 3 on the dice always succeeds" rule -- that's just goofy.)
Naw. As with any rules light game (which GUL is), GM calls have a heavier influence than games with hundreds of pages. If the GM doesn't want the PC to be able to succeed at an action, then he simply says, "You fail." If he wants to leave it up to chance, there should *always* be a chance of success; otherwise, don't waste the time rolling.

IMO, of course.
__________________
Paul Chapman
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:51 PM   #4
Captain-Captain
 
Captain-Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: GURPS Ultra-Lite -- thoughts

Assuming the damn Earth stops quaking, my suggestion for packaging. Print. Number them. Cut them out individually. Lay them in order. Staple. Get a good magnifying glass. Read.
__________________
...().0...0()
.../..........\
-/......O.....\-
...VVVVVVV
..^^^^^^^

A clock running two hours slow has the correct time zero times a day.
Captain-Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 09:07 PM   #5
Zed
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default Re: GURPS Ultra-Lite -- thoughts

I like it! It's simple. It can work for a pickup game or rules light game. It's easy enough to start teach people GURPS lingo.

It took me 2 reads to figure out the levels (mainly because I was expecting something more complicated).

A 3rd page of adorable little character sheets would be a good addition. Maybe set 3 or 4 or 6 individual character sheets on one page. Don't forget the silhouette to draw in your character. :D

~Z
Zed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 09:42 PM   #6
JMason
 
JMason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cockeysville, MD
Default Re: GURPS Ultra-Lite -- thoughts

I have to agree with Rev. Pee Kitty, this is too removed from the GURPS format to really be a tool I would use to introduce new players to GURPS. On the other hand, I also agree that it seems like a simple "beer and pretzels" rpg that could be fun to use.

If _I_ were writing GURPS UL I would...

1) Not use the tiny booklet format. A lot of space is wasted for each page's boarder and I just do not like it.

2) Roll ST and HT into one stat so everything follows the same scale.

3) List some Advantages and Disadvantages that cost/give a level. -OR- Use a Pick a Disadvantage to get an Advantage system.

5) Change the requires training penalty to -5 (which is an Average skill default).

6) Have the first level of a Skill buy off the -5 penalty (A Bang! skill level at the controlling Attribute cost 24 points, this low cost is offset by the more expensive additional levels)

7) Additional levels of Skills add +4. (48 points)

That is all I have for now, great work on this.

Edit: Made some mistakes on the level costs....fixed now.
__________________
---
My Blog: Dice and Discourse - My adventures in GURPS and thoughts on table top RPGs.

Last edited by JMason; 01-08-2009 at 09:57 PM.
JMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 10:07 PM   #7
Rabiddave
 
Rabiddave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia
Default Re: GURPS Ultra-Lite -- thoughts

I like it as a quick and simple intro; propably best for people new to rpgs in general.

For reactions, I would say that PCs get a bonus equal to their skill level (+1 to +4) when dealing with NPCs that particular skill involves. (just to add a little more complexity to the system)
Rabiddave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 10:36 PM   #8
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: GURPS Ultra-Lite -- thoughts

Keep the ideas coming! And to come clean: This is a bare-bones, quicky item that got written in e-mail, and not really meant to be an "intro to GURPS" so much as "a look at how those crazy SJ Games people spend their time."
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My LiveJournal [Just GURPS News][Just The Company]
Kromm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 10:40 PM   #9
JMason
 
JMason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cockeysville, MD
Default Re: GURPS Ultra-Lite -- thoughts

I would also like to see something like, "...after the completion of an adventure, PCs may be rewarded with an additional level."
__________________
---
My Blog: Dice and Discourse - My adventures in GURPS and thoughts on table top RPGs.
JMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 11:23 PM   #10
Xplo
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Default Re: GURPS Ultra-Lite -- thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Keep the ideas coming! And to come clean: This is a bare-bones, quicky item that got written in e-mail, and not really meant to be an "intro to GURPS" so much as "a look at how those crazy SJ Games people spend their time."
That half-answers my question, I suppose: what is the point of GUL? Why was it made, and what is SJG hoping to accomplish with its release?
Xplo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.