Steve Jackson Games Forums Dodgin' Bullets
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 03-22-2016, 02:45 PM #61 Kalzazz   Join Date: Feb 2009 Re: Dodgin' Bullets Would it break anything to allow a dodge at say -3 to something which is generally somehow acting like it might want to dodge even if it can't see the specific attack? That's probably my biggest complaint, the rabbit fleeing the hunter (or the cat) can't try to dodge because its a rear hex
03-22-2016, 02:49 PM   #62
Ulzgoroth

Join Date: Jul 2008
Re: Dodgin' Bullets

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Kalzazz Would it break anything to allow a dodge at say -3 to something which is generally somehow acting like it might want to dodge even if it can't see the specific attack? That's probably my biggest complaint, the rabbit fleeing the hunter (or the cat) can't try to dodge because its a rear hex
Rabbits don't have rear hexes, do they?
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03-22-2016, 02:52 PM   #63
Andreas

Join Date: Mar 2014
Re: Dodgin' Bullets

Quote:
 Originally Posted by DouglasCole Your question actually inverts the causality here. The origin of the relationship for Skill, Parry/Block, and Dodge is based on how penalties to DX are reflected: Skill - penalty to DX is 1:1 with skill Block/Parry - penalty to DX is 1:2 with skill, because Parry/Block are half skill Dodge - penalty is 1:4 with DX, because Speed = (DX+HT)/4, and Dodge is based on Move which is based on Speed. That said, plenty of things are "penalizes all defenses." If you want to unify them all, use the penalties for Parry/Block for Dodge. But that's why the penalty for Dodge is low - it's 1/4 of the skill penalty.
Ah, now I see how you got 1/4. That methodology seems somewhat strange though. Why would the speed of the projectile only penalise DX? As seen in the formula for calculating Basic Speed, HT also affects how fast you can move in response to attacks.

Yes, using the Parry/Block values for Dodge as well seems like a better solution, though they are still rather low since even those make it possible for a reailistic human to dodge supersonic projectiles.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Varyon I see, I misunderstood your question. Basically, you want to know why the difference is based on a multiplier/divisor rather than a simple linear adjustment. I think my example gives a good reason why a linear adjustment is a bad idea - if Dodge is always at +6 relative to Parry, then at the low-speed end (where you'd actually expect to see most characters being able to pull this off) Dodge and Parry are going to be too different. For example, a thrown hatchet is at -1 to Block/Parry, +0 or so to Dodge, which is consistent with Basic Set rules. If we go with the linear adjustment, we can either maintain the old Block/Parry rules or the old Dodge rules. In the former case, Dodge gets a whopping +5 to Dodge a hatchet. In the latter case, Blocking/Parrying a hatchet is at -6. We could go for the worst of both worlds and split the difference, for +3 to Dodge and -3 to Block/Parry.
There would not have to be such a large difference between dodging and parrying. A difference of 2 or 3 seems more reasonable.

03-22-2016, 02:57 PM   #64
Anthony

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Re: Dodgin' Bullets

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Andreas The penalties Dodge This assigns based on the speed of the projectile seem very small.
It probably shouldn't be based on speed at all, the relevant factor is 'how long before impact can you determine where the projectile is going to hit'.
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03-22-2016, 03:06 PM   #65
Varyon

Join Date: Jun 2013
Re: Dodgin' Bullets

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Kalzazz Would it break anything to allow a dodge at say -3 to something which is generally somehow acting like it might want to dodge even if it can't see the specific attack? That's probably my biggest complaint, the rabbit fleeing the hunter (or the cat) can't try to dodge because its a rear hex
This is best represented as one of the various Evasive Movement rules (the Dodge This! version being the only RAW one I'm aware of) - that is, this is most appropriate as a penalty to hit rather than as an active defense. That said, Dodge at -4 (as for when fighting an invisible foe) is probably appropriate.

 03-22-2016, 03:17 PM #66 Kalzazz   Join Date: Feb 2009 Re: Dodgin' Bullets There's also Acrobatic Movement in Martial Arts, which fits perfectly well for bouncey rabbits I really would prefer to have it as a Dodge (though admittedly a dodge no rabbit will ever make at -4)
03-22-2016, 03:23 PM   #67
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Re: Dodgin' Bullets

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Varyon (the Dodge This! version being the only RAW one I'm aware of)
I'd not consider Pyramid RAW, for what it's worth. These are vetted optional rules, but definitely OPTIONAL . . . like double-optional, because all of GURPS is optional, and Pyr more so.
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03-22-2016, 03:23 PM   #68
Andreas

Join Date: Mar 2014
Re: Dodgin' Bullets

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Anthony It probably shouldn't be based on speed at all, the relevant factor is 'how long before impact can you determine where the projectile is going to hit'.
Yes, looking at time rather than speed would be the most realistic approach, but a speed penalty can still be useful as an approximate value in situations where the distance to the attacker is neither exceptionally long or short.

Perhaps something like these might be reasonable values for Dodge penalties/bonuses

4 seconds: +12
2 seconds: +8
1 seconds: +4
0.5 seconds: +0
0.25 seconds: -4
0.125 seconds: -8
0.0625 seconds: -12

 03-22-2016, 03:33 PM #69 Kalzazz   Join Date: Feb 2009 Re: Dodgin' Bullets I'm pretty sure that Kromm has said Pyramid = GURPS supplement I consider the Dodge This! rules to be say just as RAW and just as optional as say the bleeding rules
03-22-2016, 03:35 PM   #70
Anthony

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Re: Dodgin' Bullets

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Andreas Perhaps something like these might be reasonable values for Dodge penalties/bonuses 4 seconds: +12 2 seconds: +8 1 seconds: +4 0.5 seconds: +0 0.25 seconds: -4 0.125 seconds: -8 0.0625 seconds: -12
Nah, at the low end it's all dominated by reaction time anyway, which is adding around 200 ms. I'd probably just go with 'base of -4, +8 per second' or something similar.
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