Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-17-2018, 11:21 AM   #11
Apollonian
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shoreline, WA (north of Seattle)
Default Re: [Creative] Trying to build a fantasy setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
In the end I'm more of a story tropes person than versimilitudinous worldbuilding person. The way humans cross my mind best is as a visitor from another world serving as a logical reason to have info-dumps. When you try to do that with native humans it feels "off".
Why not run with that? Have entirely non-humans for native races, then insert small enclaves or groups of wandering humans that have been transplanted from other dimensions (maybe Banestormed in, if you want to use some easy GURPS material). For whatever reason, they're not an established race, and that gives you a human hat: Outsiders. It's also a handy way to introduce new players to your setting without having to force feed them a bunch of exposition at character creation.

But enough about hew-mons. What about the rest of your setting? What's the big elemental conflict that's driving adventure? What are the little points of civilization, and why haven't they spread out into the not-fearsome wilderness? How did that Lost civilization fall, and what kind of wonders and dangers can be found in its ruins?

TBH, this is starting to look more like a Studio Ghibli setting than classic dungeon fantasy, which is pretty interesting to me.
Apollonian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 11:32 AM   #12
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: [Creative] Trying to build a fantasy setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollonian View Post
But enough about hew-mons. What about the rest of your setting? What's the big elemental conflict that's driving adventure? What are the little points of civilization, and why haven't they spread out into the not-fearsome wilderness? How did that Lost civilization fall, and what kind of wonders and dangers can be found in its ruins?

TBH, this is starting to look more like a Studio Ghibli setting than classic dungeon fantasy, which is pretty interesting to me.
To me it sounds like Middle-Earth at the end of the Third Age. It has the big elemental conflict, the little points of civilization, the largely empty wilderness (though with fearsome points), and the lost civilization and wonders and dangers. . . .
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 11:48 AM   #13
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: [Creative] Trying to build a fantasy setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
I mean it feels weird that "fully human but looks weird" is so dispised: it's like saying that appearance should dictate behavior*;
The worldbuilding reason: why off Earth should a creature with an entirely different history (evolutionary or fantastical) and a different nature than humans wind up thinking exactly the same way? That seems to assume there's only one possible way to be sapient, or that evolution (or the gods) direct development to just one kind of mind.

The storytelling reason: if the non-humans really are just humans with funny bits, why do you need them in the story at all? Just use all humans, and it will save you a lot of exposition about something that ultimately doesn't matter, by definition. Even stories about aliens are really about "what it means to be human". The point of using the aliens is to contrast with human thought, or as mirrors for subsets of human thought (often "planet of hats") or to provide an outside viewpoint looking in. Our stories are by humans and for humans, after all. The other SF possibility is simply exploring what's possible for its own sake -- but then, that also presumes the non-humans think differently than humans. Otherwise, you're just exploring the way humans think.

If you do want humans, just with funny bits, then perhaps you'd be interested in pushing that notion even further. See Trans-Human Space, for instance -- or a fantasy analog with minds/souls hopping between bodies, if not simply created avatars. Or with fantasy trappings, perhaps you could use a race of shapeshifters. That way, the funny bits are not only extraneous, they're changeable and interchangeable, no more central that what clothes people are wearing. That might help focus your story on the only thing that doesn't change -- the minds, souls, personalities, motives of the characters involved.
Anaraxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 12:45 PM   #14
Purple Haze
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: [Creative] Trying to build a fantasy setting.

Fantasy worlds, be they literature or RPG, need to have protagonists the reader/player can identify with. That is almost always perforce human.

If you don't want humans to be the dominant species/culture, fine. The PC's are humans from somewhere distant, shipwreck here with no way home.

Fill your world with fantasy stereotypes and we don't need humans. You've also done nothing original. Tell me I have to play a Prootwaddle and I am out, I can have no idea how you think it should be played. You would have to give me a novel's worth of background material to read before I could play, at which point I'd probably decide I hate them and want to play something from a race dedicated to exterminating them.
Purple Haze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 12:55 PM   #15
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: [Creative] Trying to build a fantasy setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Haze View Post
Fantasy worlds, be they literature or RPG, need to have protagonists the reader/player can identify with. That is almost always perforce human.
Tolkien made it work fine with hobbits.

Quote:
If you don't want humans to be the dominant species/culture, fine. The PC's are humans from somewhere distant, shipwreck here with no way home.

Fill your world with fantasy stereotypes and we don't need humans. You've also done nothing original. Tell me I have to play a Prootwaddle and I am out, I can have no idea how you think it should be played. You would have to give me a novel's worth of background material to read before I could play, at which point I'd probably decide I hate them and want to play something from a race dedicated to exterminating them.
I haven't found that to be necessary. I gave each of my players in Tapestry about half a dozen pages on the race of the character they had chosen to play, including a list of cultural backgrounds; talked with them about the assumptions that were relevant to their character concepts; and trusted them to improvise. We started out with a ghoul necromancer, a ghoul thief/scout, a nixie merchant, a selkie sea captain/retired pirate, and a trollwife healer/shaman. Now we have a nixie rogue/apprentice merchant from a different culture, and the thief/scout's player has dropped out. They seemed to have enough to go on.

What I was doing was starting with fantasy stereotypes; associating each with a distinct environment (for example, elves with forests or woodlands); deciding on size, robustness/gracility, and sexual dimorphism; and picking a few racial mentality traits using the system in GURPS Space. I also associated each race with an animal species or two (dwarves, for example, with naked mole rates), though I didn't tell the players that. This seemed to produce a coherent enough image for them to work with, though that might be peculiar to my particular players.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 02:13 PM   #16
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Creative] Trying to build a fantasy setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Haze View Post
Fantasy worlds, be they literature or RPG, need to have protagonists the reader/player can identify with. That is almost always perforce human.
Um... go to a bookstore, start looking at books in the SF/Fantasy section. It won't take you a long time to find one where the protagonist is an alien or supernatural beast. If you want a shortcut, head for the paranormal romances.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 02:24 PM   #17
SilvercatMoonpaw
 
SilvercatMoonpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Re: [Creative] Trying to build a fantasy setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollonian View Post
Why not run with that? Have entirely non-humans for native races, then insert small enclaves or groups of wandering humans that have been transplanted from other dimensions (maybe Banestormed in, if you want to use some easy GURPS material). For whatever reason, they're not an established race, and that gives you a human hat: Outsiders. It's also a handy way to introduce new players to your setting without having to force feed them a bunch of exposition at character creation.
I could do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollonian View Post
But enough about hew-mons.
Sorry, they are one of my buttons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollonian View Post
TBH, this is starting to look more like a Studio Ghibli setting than classic dungeon fantasy, which is pretty interesting to me.
I devour quite a lot of non-threatening animated influence, so the resemblance is not too coincidental. The usual sort of violence and darkness that normally drives fantasy RPGs has begun to ware on me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Haze View Post
Tell me I have to play a Prootwaddle and I am out, I can have no idea how you think it should be played. You would have to give me a novel's worth of background material to read before I could play, at which point I'd probably decide I hate them and want to play something from a race dedicated to exterminating them.
Why do you need a whole novel? Me, I look at a picture, read a couple of sentences, and then just make stuff up because I was going to do that anyway.
SilvercatMoonpaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 03:50 PM   #18
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: [Creative] Trying to build a fantasy setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Um... go to a bookstore, start looking at books in the SF/Fantasy section. It won't take you a long time to find one where the protagonist is an alien or supernatural beast. If you want a shortcut, head for the paranormal romances.
C. J. Cherryh's Chanur novels are wonderful, if now old enough to be nearly classics.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 05:13 PM   #19
SilvercatMoonpaw
 
SilvercatMoonpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Re: [Creative] Trying to build a fantasy setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollonian View Post
What about the rest of your setting? What's the big elemental conflict that's driving adventure? What are the little points of civilization, and why haven't they spread out into the not-fearsome wilderness? How did that Lost civilization fall, and what kind of wonders and dangers can be found in its ruins?
Hm, I was thinking about this, and I think I can link some of the ideas:

Points of Civilization: Power. Maybe something like vertical ley-lines where they have a finite radius but massive height. Or some other system with a similar result. The point is if you want high-tech comforts you have to stick close.

Why haven't they spread?: Even if you can't transfer the power outward there would definitely be people who'd want to expand. In these cases, though, the wilderness has a mind of its own: build and take too much and it fights back, stay small and it doesn't bother you. There's also probably some philosophy/religion of being green that cropped up after the Ancients fell (even if we all know people never really follow those as strictly as they say).

What happened to the Ancients?: They tried to use the Points of Power to reshape what was then a more-hostile world. And they succeeded in making the current one. Including the new elemental system/wilderness that fights back. And since the Ancients were big on exploitative industry it epicly bitch-slapped them.

What is the other competing elemental system?: An older one that didn't really care about what the Ancients did. In many ways it's a more "natural" system that way. As a faction it wants to take the world back to the time before the Ancients changed things, not for any Evil reason but because it's a crotchety old thing.
SilvercatMoonpaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 05:17 PM   #20
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Creative] Trying to build a fantasy setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
C. J. Cherryh's Chanur novels are wonderful, if now old enough to be nearly classics.
This makes me ponder what defines old enough to be classic (they were reprinted in omnibus editions back in 2000/2007, but that's clearly not sufficient).
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.