Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2013, 04:30 PM   #1
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default SpaceShips missiles attack rules

Forgive me, I know this has been asked before, but finding it seems to be beyond me:

In spaceships, is the targeting between missiles and guns the same? It seems to be, but that makes no sense. shouldn't missiles reduce range, ahem, relative velocity penalties? And is there a reason you don't use both range AND relative velocity? If I've matched vector with you, shooting you should still be harder if you're far away.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 05:08 PM   #2
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: SpaceShips missiles attack rules

"Bullets" are just missiles that get most of their delta-V in the barrel. They still have thrusters and attitude adjusters, which means they are effectively Homing/Guided, just like missiles. That's why you don't worry about range.

Of course, Spaceships then goes off and assumes you're taking -30 in range penalties to get the final sAcc... but I digress.
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 05:33 PM   #3
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: SpaceShips missiles attack rules

The relative velocity penalty is not a range penalty, it's a penalty for the closing speed that your munition needs to cope with while pulling off an intercept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Of course, Spaceships then goes off and assumes you're taking -30 in range penalties to get the final sAcc... but I digress.
Presumably that doesn't apply to projectile weapons.

Though without it, one must wonder how the guns can possibly manage to have negative sAcc.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 05:54 PM   #4
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: SpaceShips missiles attack rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
The relative velocity penalty is not a range penalty, it's a penalty for the closing speed that your munition needs to cope with while pulling off an intercept.

Presumably that doesn't apply to projectile weapons.

Though without it, one must wonder how the guns can possibly manage to have negative sAcc.
If we apply the "add 18 to sAcc to get real Acc," we get quite sensible numbers for the real Acc of guns and missiles. In order to get negative sAcc, either the weapons need to suffer Range penalties - which they shouldn't if they're homing/guided - or they have -21 targeting systems.

The penalty might just be due to the fact that it's really, really hard to hit something at space ranges with something that has fairly low delta-v (like a "bullet").
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 06:28 PM   #5
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: SpaceShips missiles attack rules

so when they say "bullet", they are describing a missile that doesn't pack enough fuel to dodge around, or do anything other than adjust for ship course changes. That could be a LOT clearer. Not to mention it makes bullets much less generic. So whats the big difference then? the size of the attack?
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 06:54 PM   #6
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: SpaceShips missiles attack rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
so when they say "bullet", they are describing a missile that doesn't pack enough fuel to dodge around, or do anything other than adjust for ship course changes. That could be a LOT clearer. Not to mention it makes bullets much less generic. So whats the big difference then? the size of the attack?
The initial acceleration in a gun is provided by external propellants, rails, coils or whatever.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 08:05 PM   #7
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: SpaceShips missiles attack rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
If we apply the "add 18 to sAcc to get real Acc," we get quite sensible numbers for the real Acc of guns and missiles. In order to get negative sAcc, either the weapons need to suffer Range penalties - which they shouldn't if they're homing/guided - or they have -21 targeting systems.

The penalty might just be due to the fact that it's really, really hard to hit something at space ranges with something that has fairly low delta-v (like a "bullet").
If we apply that. I wouldn't, because it makes little sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
so when they say "bullet", they are describing a missile that doesn't pack enough fuel to dodge around, or do anything other than adjust for ship course changes. That could be a LOT clearer. Not to mention it makes bullets much less generic. So whats the big difference then? the size of the attack?
Spaceships never uses the word bullet to describe ammunition.

At the earliest possible point (p28) it indicates: "guns fire shell packages with small thrusters and guidance systems for limited course correction."

On page 59: "Guns, missile launchers, and ramming spacecraft all use these rules. Since the attacker is steering or homing on the target, range modifiers are irrelevant – what matters is the relative velocity."

What more do you want it to say?


Unguided bullets are completely nonsensical at Spaceships ranges unless they're fired at ridiculously high speeds. Cosmic grav guns could maybe be used with dumb bullets, but only at short ranges.


The big difference: cannons are awful, missiles are really really good. Shells are much cheaper and lighter than missiles and not prone to unwantedly blowing up your entire ship (presumably because they don't need the main propulsion), and you can have RF and VRF mounts for guns, but none of those facts are all that useful because guns are terrible.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.