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Old 03-16-2010, 10:34 PM   #1
ThomasSmith
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Default Altered Time Rate and Vehicle Pilots

Something I haven't been able to find anywhere in the forums and can't figure out from the books is how ATR interacts between vehicles and vehicular pilots.

The Vehicle:
An SM+0 mecha with flight and a disproportionate BFG in the best old style. Don't think too hard about the aerodynamics, they don't work (I checked). It isn't genre-relevant. The thing flies really well and can be appreciably lethal. It's only SM+0 because the pilot is only SM-1 (see below).

The Pilot:
An SM-1 reptillian alchemist with gadgetry that can temporarily alter the rate time passes for her, granting her several levels of Altered Time Rate and Enhanced Time Sense. A highly trained pilot with exceptional natural skill, she also has a level of Extra Attack. If you're noticing this is a high-point game, you're correct.

The Situation:
During an intense combat, our intrepid pilot activates her Altered Time Rate. It is straining to have it turned on, but she can manage the strain for quite a while.

The Questions:
What maneuvers can our time-dilated pilot handle that she couldn't normally? How does the machine handle the effect?

Let's say we're at range. The BFG fires once per second normally. A pilot with ATR can not speed up the firing rate of their vehicle's main gun, can they?
Let's say we're not at range anymore because the enemy closed in. The BFG can be switched to a short-range jet mode; that takes a ready action. Does ATR hurry this process at all?
Let's say we're at range and we want to fix that. Can the ATR pilot fly the vehicle faster than a normal pilot? Are there any daring movement-related maneuvers she can use to push the limits?
Now let's say that we're up close and we've even got the BFG switched over to its jet mode. The vehicle has a striker, a jet, a melee innate attack, and fangs. How many attacks can our pilot with ATR 3 and Extra Attack 1 manage in a round?

Finally, what does it mean if a vehicle has ATR itself, if anything?
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:38 PM   #2
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Altered Time Rate and Vehicle Pilots

I would tend to say that the pilot's second action can only be used for actions other than controlling the vehicle.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:56 PM   #3
lexington
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Re: Altered Time Rate and Vehicle Pilots

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasSmith View Post
Let's say we're not at range anymore because the enemy closed in. The BFG can be switched to a short-range jet mode; that takes a ready action. Does ATR hurry this process at all?
If you're simply flipping a switch, absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasSmith View Post
Can the ATR pilot fly the vehicle faster than a normal pilot?
No, that would require Affects Others or something like it.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:57 PM   #4
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate and Vehicle Pilots

The only affect ATR would have on the vehicle from the Pilot would be the pilot could use an extra control station if at same desk. like maneuver and aim or fire or read sensors. but not fly faster or shoot more since the vehicle is already taking tis action in that regard.

if the Vehicle had ATR then it could fire twice in a round with a gun as the pilot would just have to hold the trigger. Same with flight as the pilot just holds the gas down.
However if the vehicle had ATR with useable on others or the pilot had it otherwise then both could do two actions a round.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:04 PM   #5
Last Pawn
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate and Vehicle Pilots

A lot of it would depend on the control structure of the vehicle. If it takes just a button push to start a process, then there's no reason the pilot couldn't take one of their subjective seconds to start the process and do something else. For example, if the vehicle had 2 BFGs which both required a ready maneuver on the part of the pilot to fire, then the pilot could conceivably use both of their actions to ready both weapons.

Regardless, the pilot's ATR doesn't transfer to the vehicle they're piloting. It's just like falling, where the person with ATR can only fall as fast as gravity will move them, though they'd get twice the actions on the way down. In the case of vehicles, the pilot is limited to the vehicle's performance in terms of what they can get the vehicle to do. Now if the vehicle and the pilot both had ATR, then the pilot can make the most of their ATR because the vehicle's performance will allow for two actions per second.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:07 PM   #6
David Johansen
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate and Vehicle Pilots

Oddly enough this came up on ICE's Rolemaster forums last week. I don't think I've seen the basic question of haste and devices ever before in years on-line and then POW! Twice in a week!

Now in Champions increasing your SPD used to make your car go faster. GURPS not so much.

However, I think it would halve the G forces for turning. This is based on my understanding of crumple zones on cars and recoil shocks on cannon. These don't reduce the energy involved but they multiply the TIME over which it acts on the entire structure and thus reduce the force of impact.

So, while the plane doesn't go faster the pilot can take tighter turns and greater risks.

Some guy with a degree in physics or engineering will likely show up to tell me I'm wrong now.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:26 PM   #7
ThomasSmith
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate and Vehicle Pilots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Pawn View Post
A lot of it would depend on the control structure of the vehicle. If it takes just a button push to start a process, then there's no reason the pilot couldn't take one of their subjective seconds to start the process and do something else. For example, if the vehicle had 2 BFGs which both required a ready maneuver on the part of the pilot to fire, then the pilot could conceivably use both of their actions to ready both weapons.

Regardless, the pilot's ATR doesn't transfer to the vehicle they're piloting. It's just like falling, where the person with ATR can only fall as fast as gravity will move them, though they'd get twice the actions on the way down. In the case of vehicles, the pilot is limited to the vehicle's performance in terms of what they can get the vehicle to do. Now if the vehicle and the pilot both had ATR, then the pilot can make the most of their ATR because the vehicle's performance will allow for two actions per second.
Okay, so readying two guns makes sense. So does watching sensor readouts. The mecha has controls and sensors as complicated as a modern jet fighter; a concentrate maneuver can be soaked every turn doing nothing but watching the numbers.

How about firing two different guns in one turn? Is that too much stress on the vehicle?

What about ramming someone with the mecha, kicking them, then bounding off to slash someone else with an energy sword, all in one second (three subjective seconds to the pilot)? Very cinematic, but does it redline a non-ATR mecha? That's three different strikes. I believe someone with Extra Attack 2 could attempt this too, for a mere 50 points.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:41 PM   #8
Last Pawn
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate and Vehicle Pilots

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasSmith View Post
How about firing two different guns in one turn? Is that too much stress on the vehicle?
Depends on the systems involved. In the case of the classic Mecha, where each arm can house/wield a weapon I'd think that firing two weapons would be straight forward. In the case of more realistic vehicles I'd say it was reasonable if you could operate both weapons from the same station and it was a free action to switch from one weapon to another.

Quote:
What about ramming someone with the mecha, kicking them, then bounding off to slash someone else with an energy sword, all in one second (three subjective seconds to the pilot)? Very cinematic, but does it redline a non-ATR mecha? That's three different strikes. I believe someone with Extra Attack 2 could attempt this too, for a mere 50 points.
While it's a very pretty scenario, let's look at what you're doing. First you ram the target. This is a slam attack, with move component. Then you kick them, which is an attack maneuver. Finally you "bound off" to slash a third opponent, which sounds like a flying attack, which incorporates a move component. All in one second. I can't see any way to justify that level of performance from a machine without ATR.

Now, seeing as ATR is permitted within you game, I think someone else posted up thread that you should take affects others on your ATR. If you limit that affects others to vehicles you're piloting then that would do the trick in terms of game mechanics. In terms of story or setting the character is such a hot shot pilot that they can routinely out perform others even when vehicle type is matched.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:06 AM   #9
ThomasSmith
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate and Vehicle Pilots

Thanks for the advice, forum, this has been excellently helpful. I think I have a handle on how ATR interacts between vehicles and pilots now. The key thing to remember is that it gives the pilot more maneuvers, but not the machine. The machine still only has just so much basic move, just so much agility, and just so many weapons (each of which will have their own operational requirements based on structure). None of these can be exceeded.

That still gives the pilot with ATR a great edge. They can still combine maneuvers in ways that would be suicidal to someone moving at 'normal' speeds. The classic AoA-AoD combo is still valid for a pilot with ATR. That doesn't require the machine to do anything it couldn't physically do. It only requires the person directing the machine to have superhuman precision.

ATR that can be used to affect vehicles is even more powerful, but I think that strains my sense of disbelief too much to try to use. Pulling off insane maneuvers is one thing, but the arm cannon's reload cycle just isn't going to be hurried by an awesome pilot, and she certainly shouldn't be able to go twice as fast in a vehicle she is piloting as an identical vehicle with its accelerator wired to the floor.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:15 AM   #10
Dustin
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate and Vehicle Pilots

With energy swords and mecha using chambarra maneuvers (kicking someone and bounding off for another attack), the mecha is clearly a proxy for the pilot, and not any sort of realistic vehicle with controls. With that in mind, I would keep it simple and say that you can do anything that doesn't exceed the mecha's speed, acceleration, and handling profiles, or any of the weapons' listed Rates of Fire.

It's going to be heavily dependent on how the GM wants the game to look and work, really. ATR and Extra Attack fundamentally alter how combat feels, and if everyone isn't on the same page about what is allowable and how it carries through to mecha combat, someone could get very disappointed with their own character build.
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