Meaning of stats compared to real world

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I really have no issues with someone with a 20 having defaults at 13-16. They spent 200 CP for the privilege. You could purchase Independent Income 5, Status 7, and Multimillionaire 5 for the same amount of CP. While IQ 20 is great, earning $10 billion/month is probably more fun, especially since you could probably hire the IQ 20 individual as your advisor for an inconsequential $10 million/month.

I'm very likely to have issues with it, if I'm running a campaign that is meant to have any resemblance to the real world.

[AlexanderHowl]

Which is fine. The majority of low powered games, less than 250 CP, should probably not have DX, IQ, or HT above 14. When you are talking about high powered games though, such limitations are probably unnecessary.

For example, 400 CP is my preferred starting point with characters, so IQ 20 is not unreasonable. They are powerful enough to be rewarding yet not powerful enough to be unbalancing. I prefer the because I can generally run more interesting campaigns and, as an added bonus, their allies are usually moderately competent.

[Inky]

The point of the thread was, though, whether the game-mechanical results of IQ 20 corresponded to anything that would happen in the real world, without superpowers. It looks like the answer is "not". Skill level 12-14 is generally agreed to be "good enough to do it for a living" (see this recent thread http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=171789 and this post quoted in it http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...57&postcount=6 ). A character with IQ 20 would have at least that level as a default in all IQ-based skills (except the few that have no default). That doesn't sound likely.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by YankeeGamer

What would be the Int for one of the 2 or three brightest people of a century?

The person in question isn't just brilliant in one field, but a polymath--though even better in the math/physics aspect, so will have some mathematics talent.

I know that there have been several threads concerning this, but can't find them--if a link to the thread would be better than a detailed answer, that's fine.

Thanks!

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'bright.' Kromm's old standby is people who have patterns of success in challenging social domains, scholarly domains, and professions. So Isaac Newton or Julius Caesar would have a very high Intelligence in GURPS, but a pure academic might just have a modest one plus a Talent or Hyper-Specialization perk and some other Advantages. GURPS IQ marks characters who are skilled in a broad range of 'thinky areas' like Doc Savage or Sherlock Holmes not ones who are intellectual.

I tend to think that about DX and IQ 15 or 16 is the highest score which feels human.

[TGLS]

Here's another way to think about it:
Someone with DX10 and no experience driving:
-> Has a 84% chance of success driving around an empty parking lot
-> Has a 50% chance of success commuting around small towns
-> Has a 5% chance of success in a car chase
Someone with DX15 and no experience driving:
-> Has a 84% chance of success commuting around a large city
-> Has a 50% chance of success in a car chase
-> Has a 5% chance of success in a high-speed car chase one handed
Someone with DX20 and no experience driving:
-> Has a 84% chance of success in a car chase on a busy highway
-> Has a 50% chance of success in a high-speed car chase one handed
-> Has a 5% chance of success in a high-speed car chase driving with the knees in a blizzard

Then add that each character has roughly the same level of experience with many other dexterity based tasks; doing acrobatics, sailing boats, shoplifting, playing football, climbing, operating in free-fall, having sex, doing origami, riding an animal, tying knots, base jumping, sneaking around, and let's not leave out most fighting skills.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by khorboth

Someone who can walk into basically any (non-adventuring) setting and succeed just as well as a trained professional because of their raw intellect.

But IQ doesn't represent raw intellect. It is "creativity, intuition, memory, perception, reason, sanity, and willpower." Someone with IQ 20 can walk into basically any non-adventuring setting and succeed just as well as a trained professional because they're the best at ALL those things.

Realistic? No. Physically impossible for a real person? No. Reasonable for a mundane but cinematic game? Yes.

[RedMattis]

IQ 20 is suitable for Gods/Demigods who are better than pros at things things they have never even attempted before. Not non-cinematic humans.

GURPS "IQ" isn't terribly realistic to begin with either, because it is a very loose abstraction. In reality intelligence is split into a huge number of different things: Learning ability, problem solving, critical thinking, imagination, memory, etc. etc. As a result you will get very strange results from a realism perspective if you give someone a very high value in it.

Just give your "realistic" Genius a good IQ, bunch of talents, and really high skills. Justify his high skills (and advantages like Lightning Calculator) by saying "He is a genius". No need to give him IQ 18-25, that will just make things feel wonky if a realistic campaign.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Which is fine. The majority of low powered games, less than 250 CP, should probably not have DX, IQ, or HT above 14. When you are talking about high powered games though, such limitations are probably unnecessary.

For example, 400 CP is my preferred starting point with characters, so IQ 20 is not unreasonable. They are powerful enough to be rewarding yet not powerful enough to be unbalancing. I prefer the because I can generally run more interesting campaigns and, as an added bonus, their allies are usually moderately competent.

Well, in the first place, you are talking about "unbalancing." But the issue here is "realism" or "verisimilitude." That's not an issue of how something affects the mechanics of a game, or what advantage it gives a player; it's an issue of how it affects the believability of a narrative.

IQ 20, in GURPS, enables narratives where a character can attempt any IQ-based skill, including all the sciences, most of the social skills (all of them if you haven't bought down Will and Per), all games, and large numbers of hobbies in professions, without any previous experience, and be more successful than a trained professional. This isn't talking about "they've studied an amazing range of things"; it's "they can figure out how to do things without having studied." Are there people who fit that description in the real world? Can you cite one example?

It seems to me, in the second place, that when you talk about "high-powered games," you are confusing power level with realism. Those are two different things. In fact, there are three different axes here:

* Low vs. high power: How many points is a character built on and how capable are they as a result
* Realistic vs. cinematic/epic: How much attention does the narrative pay to details as opposed to letting narrative flow carry the action along
* Mundane vs. fantastic: Are the characters and the things they encounter restricted by natural law and technological possibility, or do they include things that weren't or aren't possible (such as exotic or supernatural traits)

A campaign about special forces operating in a hostile environment would probably be entirely mundane. And it could very well be harshly realistic, as a way of heightening the tension and providing an aesthetic of gritty details. But it likely enough would be high power, with characters built on more than 250 points (your threshold value).

And it seems to me that no matter what the power level, letting skills default from a stat higher than 16 (say) is cinematic or epic rather than realistic.

[AlexanderHowl]

It is usually a matter of efficiency. IQ 20 could represent an individual who is just very broadly skilled, as purchasing IQ 20 is cheaper than having IQ 10 and purchasing skill 16 in a dozen different E skills. Now, if GURPS gave a reason for people to invest in skills rather than attributes, then it would be a different story, but it is usually much more efficient to purchase one high attributes than a lot of high skills.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

It is usually a matter of efficiency. IQ 20 could represent an individual who is just very broadly skilled, as purchasing IQ 20 is cheaper than having IQ 10 and purchasing skill 16 in a dozen different E skills. Now, if GURPS gave a reason for people to invest in skills rather than attributes, then it would be a different story, but it is usually much more efficient to purchase one high attributes than a lot of high skills.

Let's see:

IQ 10, 0; skill-16 in 12 E skills, 20x12 = 240; total 0+240 = 240
IQ 11, total 20+16x12 = 20+192 = 212
IQ 12, total 40+12x12 = 40+144 = 184
IQ 13, total 60+8x12 = 60+96 = 156
IQ 14, total 80+4x12 = 80+48 = 128
IQ 15, total 100+2x12 = 100+24 = 124
IQ 16, total 120+1x12 = 120+12 = 132
and skipping IQ 17-19, which cannot give you skill-16:
IQ 20, total 200+0x12 = 200+0 = 200

It appears that the optimal IQ for efficiency is 15, at which your default skill is a not outrageously unreasonable 11. Your argument for buying IQ 20 is not supported by the requirement of efficiency.