Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-30-2020, 03:25 PM   #11
JimmyPlenty
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Strength and armor vs agility and cleverness

Should we move this to the "House Rules" section? I think that is where this kind of thread is going to lead.

...and we have newbies watching. Let's not confuse them!
JimmyPlenty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2020, 04:17 PM   #12
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Strength and armor vs agility and cleverness

I don't see anything resembling a house rule in this thread so far; just a lot of wonky discussion of character design following RAW.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2020, 05:47 PM   #13
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Strength and armor vs agility and cleverness

You'd only need house rules to introduce some reason to allocate points to ST, either at creation or later on. (Other of course than the Master Fencer who finally picks up ST 10 once he's got DX 18+).
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2020, 09:44 PM   #14
Terquem
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Idaho Falls
Default Re: Strength and armor vs agility and cleverness

Some people's insistence on telling people the right way to play this game is driving my interest in these boards downward.
Terquem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2020, 09:30 AM   #15
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Strength and armor vs agility and cleverness

I wonder how Wimpy guy would fare at -4DX against this 32-point Halfling:

ST 4
DX 15 (14)
IQ 13

Talents: Bow, Missile Weapons 2, Knife, Fencing, Master Fencer, Shield Expertise

Armor: Cloth Armor and Small Shield stops 3 hits

Weapons: Sling (1d-2, missile), Main gauche (1d + 1)
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2020, 10:27 AM   #16
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Strength and armor vs agility and cleverness

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
I wonder how Wimpy guy would fare at -4DX against this 32-point Halfling:
A: That isn't a beginning character.
and
B: It's yet another ST dumper.
and
C: Your MA is reduced due to load.

Characters do not start with ST or armor. If I'm wrong then come online and prove it. Heck I'll even add my defeat to my Youtube channel. Who is ready to accept this immortal glory?
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2020, 01:27 PM   #17
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Strength and armor vs agility and cleverness

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
A: That isn't a beginning character.
and
B: It's yet another ST dumper.
and
C: Your MA is reduced due to load.

Characters do not start with ST or armor. If I'm wrong then come online and prove it. Heck I'll even add my defeat to my Youtube channel. Who is ready to accept this immortal glory?
I'm just saying Fuzzy the Fighter could beat Wimpy Guy.
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2020, 08:03 PM   #18
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Strength and armor vs agility and cleverness

Your example characters have differences that don't entirely relate to ST vs DX. For instance, one of them uses a pole weapon and the other doesn't. One of them uses a two-handed weapon: those were dubious in Classic and have only got substantially worse with the Legacy changes. One of them is armoured and the other isn't. And really - DX 7? Clearly something's gone wrong.

You may be right that ST is a dump stat to some extent, and should be strengthened. But you can't prove it with a rigged test. We are all a little bit dumber because we read your claim you could.

As an example of a moderately high ST fighter that does more or less work and is useful I suggest ST 12, DX 10, IQ 10 with Shield Expertise and Toughness I. I don't know if he'd beat your javelineer - he's short on DX, no question - but he'd have more chance than your dinosaur proposal.

Your crossbowman is very capable at exactly 32 points, but fails to progress with experience as fast as other designs. Which is an issue for a real character but not for something generated for a one-off. (I have house rules to address this.)

It's also worth asking how these characters would perform as part of teams, rather than as individuals. The crossbowman relies on a screen of fighters so can't rely be justified as better than a fighter. The javelineer I'm guessing does a lot of disengage and charge. Fine in a duel, but what if you disengage and the figure you were fighting runs off to mug the wizard you left exposed? I'm not saying it will definitely happen but it's the kind of issue your duel won't shed light on.

And of course things happen in adventures that don't happen in duels, like the GM saying, "The gas is making you all sick, roll 2/ST to keep going." Though to be fair he might also ask for a DX check.
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2021, 06:00 PM   #19
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Strength and armor vs agility and cleverness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
Some people's insistence on telling people the right way to play this game is driving my interest in these boards downward.
Yes, I sadly tend to agree with you.
Chris Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2021, 07:09 PM   #20
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Strength and armor vs agility and cleverness

The advancement for the crossbow sniper (like 99% of all character types in Legacy) is to spend XP on DX.

So after 400 XPs of adventures we have

Slightly Armored Dude, Human, age 21
ST 12, DX 14 (12), IQ 9, MA 10 (8)
Talents include: Crossbow, Missile Weapons III, Shield, Sword, Toughness
Weapons: Broadsword (2d), Dagger (1d-1), Light Crossbow (2d)
Armor: Leather armor, Toughness and Small Shield stop 4 hits

If you plan ahead you'll start DX 10, IQ 10 with Shield Expertise and Missile Weapons II, in the expectation of buying up DX and then when DX is high enough getting armor.

Under that route you'd wait until DX 15 then buy the missing point of IQ so you can add the yummy IQ 11 talents like say:

Kinda Tough Dude, Human, age 21
ST 12, DX 15 (13), IQ 11, MA 10 (8)
Talents include: Crossbow, Missile Weapons II, Shield Expertise, Sword Expertise, Toughness
Weapons: Light Crossbow (2d), Broadsword (2d+1), fine Dagger (1d)
Attacks and Damage: Punch (1d-2)
Armor: Toughness, leather armor and Small Shield stop 5 hits, -2 DX to be hit with sword and shield.

There's no point buying IQ when talents cost more than attributes, because it doesn't unlock bonus feats at that point. It's a pity it's not worthwhile to get an enchanted crossbow because there are no fine crossbows or any with the Break Weapon immunity that Master Armourers can easily identify. (Off to get a longbow with the Staff II enchantment...)
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.