Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2017, 10:08 PM   #11
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
So basically, instead of using a 360-degree Area, you cut the price and target size in half and have an Arc? That makes some sense, although it may be more GURPSy to reduce price by only 20%, so Area is +40%/level rather than +50%/level.

I really like this Arc suggestion, regardless of what price we ultimately decide on. Thanks, evileeyore - I think I'll go with this unless someone comes up with something better.
Sure. I'd actually check the Accessibility write up in... I think it's Power-Ups Limitations. I'm being lazy today or I'd have done that myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Then the Melee limitation doesn't seem appropriate.
Granted. I didn't notice you were specifically responding to the Melee bit, I was thinking about Area and Jet when I read your post.
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2017, 10:42 PM   #12
kirbwarrior
 
kirbwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Then the Melee limitation doesn't seem appropriate.
Is there a way to add the ability to parry to a trait that is allowed to have the Melee limitation? The ability could built as an area attack with the ability to parry as a Melee weapon to approximate things.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
kirbwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2017, 10:57 PM   #13
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
Is there a way to add the ability to parry to a trait that is allowed to have the Melee limitation? The ability could built as an area attack with the ability to parry as a Melee weapon to approximate things.
I think most things built as cones or emanations or whatever probably would more sensibly power parry anyway, but if you do have something that makes more sense to parry as melee weapon you probably could allow that as an option instead of power parry.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2017, 04:50 AM   #14
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I'm interested in abilities that function at melee ranges - that is, somewhere between C and 4 yards - not in 10 yard projected beams.
Short Range works just as well on Jet as it does on normal Innate Attacks.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A neglected GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2017, 10:36 AM   #15
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Sure. I'd actually check the Accessibility write up in... I think it's Power-Ups Limitations. I'm being lazy today or I'd have done that myself.
I was also too lazy to check, but I know from experience that 50% Accessible (which this sort of is) is a -20% Limitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
Is there a way to add the ability to parry to a trait that is allowed to have the Melee limitation? The ability could built as an area attack with the ability to parry as a Melee weapon to approximate things.
Making this as an actual Advantage - rather than using the build to figure out the necessary Imbuement Technique - I'd make it a Natural Weapon with Ranged, which allows it to be used normally in melee. If not using Natural Weapon - say, for a magical blade of fire that deals damage completely independent of the character's ST* - I'd probably build it as two Alternative Attacks - one with Melee, the other with Arc (or Area Effect) and Emanation.

*Actually, I'd still build it as a Natural Weapon, with as many levels of Increased Damage as needed and allowed; if that were insufficient, I'd use the suggested One Attack Only -60% Limitation on Striking ST. But that's more because I actually prefer Natural Weapon over Innate Attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Short Range works just as well on Jet as it does on normal Innate Attacks.
Fair enough, but that still has the issue that you aren't supposed to reduce Max independently of 1/2D. If we ignore that rule as well as ignore the Cone and Jet incompatibility (as you previously suggested), an attack that strikes all three of the character's Front hexes would be Cone +80%, Jet +0%, Blockable -10%, Reduced Max Range x1/2 -5%, and Reduced Range x1/5 -20%, or a grand total of +45%. Of course, at this point Jet seems like a senseless option (the whole point is to avoid Range penalties, which this lacks), so dropping it and having Reduced Max Range x1/10 -15% and Reduced Range x1/10 -30% changes it to a net +25%. Instead using Arc +40%/level, this would be Arc +40%, Blockable -10%, Emanation -20%, for a total of +10%. As upgrading to affect all hexes within 1 yard of the character - with Area Effect +50% instead of Arc - is +20%, I think Arc is more appropriate here.

For the actual build I'm looking at, it occurs to me that the normal Ranged modifier is +40%, while Emanation is -20%, so it may be appropriate, with the Ranged modifier for Natural Weapon being +100%, to change Emanation to -50%. On a Natural Weapon, the first is something like Cone +80%, Ranged +100%, Blockable -10%, Reduced Max Range x1/10* -15%, Reduced Range x1/10* -30%, for a total of +125%. The Arc build would be Arc +40%, Ranged +100%, Blockable -10%, Emanation -50%, for a net +80%, or +90% to switch Arc out for Area Effect. It does occur to me that at this price, limiting it to only the front 3 hexes has so little effect on price most are likely to opt for just the full coverage. I'm honestly tempted to make it +100% for the Area Effect (fudging things a bit for an even -10 to hit in my Imbuement system), and +60% for only the front 3 hexes (boosting the Accessibility to -40%, which is probably a bit much), simply because those "feel" a bit more right to me, but that's a case where I'm taking the "proper" build and adjusting it a bit - in which case the proper build is at least giving me a jumping-off point.

*This assumes a character with ST 10 - higher ST actually gets more range, but you have to be at ST 20 before you'd really get a higher Limitation value anyway, so I think we're good here.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2017, 11:37 AM   #16
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

The problem with Cone is that in order to hit 3 hexes across the target has to be at least 3 hexes away...
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2017, 10:57 PM   #17
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
The problem with Cone is that in order to hit 3 hexes across the target has to be at least 3 hexes away...
I don't see anything in the description of Cone that indicates this. An undefined cone, as for a weapon, spreads at a rate of 1 yard of width gained per yard of range, but there's nothing indicating this is the fastest it can spread. Even with that, I certainly prefer the Arc+Emanation route instead.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 12:10 AM   #18
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
An undefined cone, as for a weapon, spreads at a rate of 1 yard of width gained per yard of range, but there's nothing indicating this is the fastest it can spread.
Yeah, that's where it came from. undefined.

I suppose if the cone were 1 yd maximum range and 3 yd wide at range... then it's a 3 yd wide arc.

Huh.
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 06:25 AM   #19
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
The problem with Cone is that in order to hit 3 hexes across the target has to be at least 3 hexes away...
The Cone Enhancement doesn't work like that. Which is what we're talking about here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Set p103
Decide on the maxi-
mum width of the cone, in yards, at
the attack’s maximum range. Cone
costs +50% plus +10% per yard of
maximum width.
If you want a 1 yard wide line attack, you take Cone @ +60%. If your attack has a max range of (e.g.) 10 and you want your cone to be 30 yards wide at that 10 yard point, then you take Cone at +350%.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A neglected GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2017, 02:21 PM   #20
Rindis
 
Rindis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: [Powers] Melee Cone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Yeah, that's where it came from. undefined.

I suppose if the cone were 1 yd maximum range and 3 yd wide at range... then it's a 3 yd wide arc.

Huh.
Which is what I did with Burning Hands. It's not RAW, as it requires extending the Reduced Range limitation, but otherwise it's fine.

In the case of a flaming blade, as described in the OP, I'd look at the Jet solution that was mentioned earlier.
__________________
My blog: All my hobbies, all the time
Rindis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cone, melee, powers

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.