07-13-2013, 06:27 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff
Okay. So. I'm toying around with an alternate skills-as-spells system for a low-tech fantasy setting that a conversation with my wife inspired. I don't know if I'm actually going to do anything with it or even detail the setting in more than the broadest strokes, but ... Riffing off the stuff in this thread and some other stuff I've been noodling about with for years ...
- - - - - - - - - - The basics are really simple. Mages cast spells by learning and using special skills. Allow me to expand that a bit: Mages (people with the magery talent) cast spells (modified or unmodified advantages) by learning and using special skills (dedicated to each specific ability they know how to use). It redefines a few terms. ;)
Fluff-wise, a spell is said to be for apprentices (easy spells), journeyman (average spells), masters (hard spells) and adepts (very hard spells). In practice, an apprentice is as capable of learning an adept-grade spell as it is capable of learning an apprentice-grade spell; they may have difficulty finding someone willing to teach them though ... Some examples would probably help. Lets see ...
- - - - - - - - - - Given the above, with the note that it hasn't been playtested yet ... break it for me? If you would be so kind? |
07-13-2013, 07:00 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff
Interesting.
I did a version of that using Skill penalties instead of a base set of points. I just used the temporary enhancement model to determine points, yours is cleaner at least to build each spell. More then that will require some thought its too early for.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
07-13-2013, 07:22 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff
Thanks.
Quote:
Easy +0 is [1], so: (1 + 1) / 0.2 = 10Hence the comment about greater levels of difficulty and the theoretical nature of such. A (Damn Hard) skill difficulty that costs [12] to reach attribute+0 would give a budget of 65 points, a (Very Damn Hard) that costs [16] for attribute+0 would give 85, a (Hard Like Woah) that costs [20] for attribute+0 would give 105. Heh. Late for me. I've been running a graveyard sleeping schedule lately. |
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07-13-2013, 07:54 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff
Ceremonial Magic using this system would essentially be the Combing Powers rules from (GURPS Powers, pg 170 - 172). Thats' easy enough.
I'm not sure how I'd handle enchanted people, places and things; my conversation with the beloved implied that small magics would be relatively common but the big stuff would possess an air of rarity and take some doing. Hmm.
The little magics like lightstones and healing potions and whatnot though. Affliction could work, as could a spell-technique to add the gadget limitations to a known spell and allow someone else to use the resulting gadget; however, both of those would result in the big stuff being made this way as well simply because it'd be cheaper and easier to do it this way. Sideline the little magics as not being related to spell magic and declare it to be the province of alchemy and herbalism instead? That'd require a useful way to map out the alchemical formulas and herbal recipes given that I'm not especially happy with the published examples of such. I vaguely recall something in pyramid though ... *goes pdf hunting* |
07-13-2013, 07:34 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff
OK, so what about the bigger point spells like say Warp or Jumper?
How do you determine their cost? Skill + a UB premium? A bigger penalty to the skill roll? For Enchantment Afflictions with perm have a terminating condition so coudl be considered temp magic and they can be counter magiced away. Gadgets could represent a more permanent method of enchantment and also allow more flexibility as your not having to spend points on a spell. I think both could work together in the campaign.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
07-14-2013, 06:23 AM | #6 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff
Quote:
Something like: Code:
Difficulty Attribute Penalty Point Budget Easy -0 > 10 Average -1 > 15 Hard -2 > 25 Very Hard -3 > 45 ... -4 > 65 ... -5 > 85 ... -6 > 105 ... -7 > 125 ... -8 > 145 ... -9 > 165 ... -10 > 185 ... ... ... Quote:
Last edited by Sunrunners_Fire; 07-14-2013 at 06:34 AM. |
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07-23-2013, 08:45 PM | #7 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff
I think it's pretty trivial. There's no rule that says you can't just give a Gadget away (or sell it, or whatever) if it makes sense to do so (which probably means it has Can be Stolen). Just "enchant" things by buying the ability with the appropriate modifiers. Specific settings can require skill rolls for this (as makes sense in your case) and the points can come from sources other than earned CP like Meditation (probably at 1 point per 200 hours) and Raw Magic.
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07-24-2013, 09:33 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff
Quote:
I'm just not sure I like the results of permitting it. |
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07-24-2013, 11:03 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
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Re: Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff
Interesting.
I've just started a psi campaign, so that's where my focus is, but I'll keep your idea on the backburner. I'm keen to see what you come up with for enchantment; it is a messy area for spells-as-powers and a good reason to use the standard magic system, but a good approach would theoretically work equally well for empowerment of psi crystals and holy relics. Unlike Sir Pudding, I found that game-mechanically simple notions generated unintuitive complexity in implementation. The exception is one-use items (potions), which just take a Triggered Delay enhancement. Repeat for extra doses (or charges); that'd get you plenty of cheap-but-weak magic items. That apprentice could make a wand of Firebolts (Triggered Delay: Point wand and say boom) with 40 charges (shots) in a work day (based on fatigue recovery time and assuming an energy reserve). Market price, counting overhead and distribution costs, would be about three times an apprentice's daily wage. Sound like a good deal? For major items, I predict you'll eventually settle on a skill for Make Specific Major Item, with prerequisites in the form of spell skills for every effect the major item incorporates. A major item skill would be developed per invention rules, each one would be a trade secret, and probably more difficult than very hard. While there's no theoretical limit on how many skills there could be, in practice there'd be a set list, standard products on the market, with a few new ones each year (or decade, depending on how rare wizards are and whether there's a patent system to protect inventors). GEF Last edited by Gef; 07-24-2013 at 11:19 PM. |
07-30-2013, 01:06 PM | #10 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: Alternate Spells-as-Skills-as-Powers Riff
Belatedly:
Thanks. Quote:
{"Fire Bolt" (IQ/Easy; IQ+0; 12 or less) [1], "Delayed Trigger" (Tech/H; Fire Bolt -5; 7 or less) [0]} ... would have the apprentice succeed once every six attempts. Eww. Add a TDM of "Easy" (+4) and take thirty seconds per casting (Extra Time +5). That'd be a +9, taking that 7 to 16, which means its' normally not worth the bother of rolling as you're only really rolling to see if they critically fail. However, thats' slow due to the fatigue costs. Adding {"No Cost" (Tech/H; Fire Bolt -4; 8 or less) [0]} ... would allow the apprentice to spam it every 30 seconds, succeeding on a 12 or less. Failure has no cost as you don't pay fatigue for miscast spells, and the success rate is high enough that specific failures aren't going to waste much time. 8 hours * 60 minutes * 60 seconds * (2/3 of the time casting) is 19,200 seconds. Divided by 30, is 640 attempts. With a success rate of 74.1%, they'd succeed 474 times a day. Six days a week. That ... thats' a lot of firebolt charges. ;) Hmm. (Assuming an eight hour work day, one hour of education and two hours of self-teaching as the normal apprentice schedule; four hours of "study" per day, two on the spell being cast and two on learning new spells. Spells of reduced sleep {Less Sleep 3 (Reduced Fatigue Cost 2, +40%) [9]} are essentially mandatory if the apprentice wants to have time for anything else.) Quote:
Quote:
Training a 15 point advantage is time consuming though. If one uses the Improvement Through Study Rules, (which I sometimes do and sometimes don't!) even Intensive Training would require the instructor to have Teaching 12+ and Magery 2+ in order to train someone in Magery 1 and would take 94 days at 16 hours per day ... and have a lot of wash outs. 375 days with normal instruction, eight hours per day, every day. Etc. Not many societies are going to be happy with their better mages being too busy turning out more mages to do anything else. At a year~ per newbie mage who doesn't know any spells to cast yet ... Price tags, price tags. |
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Tags |
alternate, magic, powers, skills, spells |
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