Tactical Shooting and Gunslinger?

[Ubiquitous]

What bonuses would Gunslinger give, or how would it behave as an advantage, with Tactical Shooting's new rules? One thing I imagine is the rules for cover being more lenient for attacking from it, but I'd like to see some other suggestions from more creative people.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

One thing I imagine is the rules for cover being more lenient for attacking from it, but I'd like to see some other suggestions from more creative people.

Well isn't shooting from behind cover one of the kind of things people in 'gunslinger' movies often don't do.

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by lachimba

Well isn't shooting from behind cover one of the kind of things people in 'gunslinger' movies often don't do.

Assuredly, but Gunslinger's the 'Weapon Master' of firearms, cutting penalties and changing rules for the gun-using player. Since Tactical Shooting puts some new things on the table, like the penalties for cover or perhaps bonuses to new manoeuvres like 'Walking The Burst'.

[vierasmarius]

Gunslinger removes penalties for Bulk in close combat or Move and Attack, the -2 for pop-up attacks, and any extra penalties for acrobatics. This makes it useful when attacking from cover, either through pop-ups or diving between pieces of cover. You also get your Acc bonus on normal Attacks, which presumably means you don't need to use Sighted Shooting to have Acc. Reduced penalties for fast firing and fast reloading are also helpful.

All together, Gunslinger doesn't mesh perfectly with Tactical Shooting, since it allows the user to basically ignore many of the "realistic" rules and options. They're really suited to two different genres of action. That said, I could see a Gunslinger existing alongside a Tactical Shooter, though probably as the heroic, cinematic PC versus the mooks who need to rely on teamwork.

EDIT: Some examples of options made obsolete or superfluous by Gunslinger: Follow-up Shots and Walking the Burst (you automatically have full Acc without needing to Aim), Sighted and Aimed Shooting (same reason), most of the "Things Not to Do"... And while Gunslinger doesn't address Situation Awareness, the style of action implied by it doesn't leave much room for careful Observation of enemies.

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Gunslinger removes penalties for Bulk in close combat or Move and Attack, the -2 for pop-up attacks, and any extra penalties for acrobatics. This makes it useful when attacking from cover, either through pop-ups or diving between pieces of cover. You also get your Acc bonus on normal Attacks, which presumably means you don't need to use Sighted Shooting to have Acc. Reduced penalties for fast firing and fast reloading are also helpful.

All together, Gunslinger doesn't mesh perfectly with Tactical Shooting, since it allows the user to basically ignore many of the "realistic" rules and options. They're really suited to two different genres of action. That said, I could see a Gunslinger existing alongside a Tactical Shooter, though probably as the heroic, cinematic PC versus the mooks who need to rely on teamwork.

EDIT: Some examples of options made obsolete or superfluous by Gunslinger: Follow-up Shots and Walking the Burst (you automatically have full Acc without needing to Aim), Sighted and Aimed Shooting (same reason), most of the "Things Not to Do"... And while Gunslinger doesn't address Situation Awareness, the style of action implied by it doesn't leave much room for careful Observation of enemies.

You're right; I suppose I looked past the entire point of the book because I was so pumped for it.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

Gunslinger's the 'Weapon Master' of firearms, cutting penalties and changing rules for the gun-using player. .

Gunslinger isn't quite weapon master (Guns) in the same way as Heroic Archer isn't weapon master (Guns), but I see what you mean.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

You're right; I suppose I looked past the entire point of the book because I was so pumped for it.

Meh, I use both Gunslinger and the TS rules in my Shadowrun games. While most people have to abide by the rules in TS, Gunslingers get to run around whilst shooting two pistols at once (and frequently running on walls too.) I find it just puts the difference between the mundane and cinematic badasses into even starker contrast.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

EDIT: Some examples of options made obsolete or superfluous by Gunslinger: Follow-up Shots and Walking the Burst (you automatically have full Acc without needing to Aim), Sighted and Aimed Shooting (same reason), most of the "Things Not to Do"... And while Gunslinger doesn't address Situation Awareness, the style of action implied by it doesn't leave much room for careful Observation of enemies.

It's kind of like a whole bunch of Rules Exemption Perks rolled up into one, isn't it?

Honestly, given the cost of Gunslinger, in a campaign where most people had to follow the realistic rules from Tactical Shooting and just one or two folks had Gunslinger, I might be inclined to let Gunslinger include the effects of even more Rule Exemptions than are explicitly included or implied in the advantage description, to the point where a firefight is completely cinematic - for those characters only. Then it would be well worth the cost, and you'd really get the effect of Rambo or Chow Yun Fat up against a bunch of Imperial Stormtroopers: a very one-sided affair.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

It's kind of like a whole bunch of Rules Exemption Perks rolled up into one, isn't it?

Honestly, given the cost of Gunslinger, in a campaign where most people had to follow the realistic rules from Tactical Shooting and just one or two folks had Gunslinger, I might be inclined to let Gunslinger include the effects of even more Rule Exemptions than are explicitly included or implied in the advantage description, to the point where a firefight is completely cinematic - for those characters only. Then it would be well worth the cost, and you'd really get the effect of Rambo or Chow Yun Fat up against a bunch of Imperial Stormtroopers: a very one-sided affair.

Remember GS doesnt have to be very expensive. You can buy GS for one specific model of gun for 5pts.

I have about 30ish points tied up in GS (UT 15mm Automag), Amidexterous, Gun Perks, and other assorted Combat Skills and that is pretty lethal in a 150/-50/-5 campaign.
(DWA VF Sign Gear Pistols with Handloaded Match Grade Ammo...basically can shoot each hand 3 shots each and be hitting on 22/18/14 <1sh/2sh/3sh> for base torso hits)

I just bought TS and have read through it...I will be giving my GM a look but I will be advising her against using TS...unless she wants me to restructure and remove GS.

IMHO a scenario where some have GS/GunFu capability and others are operating under TS is likely to be way onesided.

Most of the Mooks cant handle things under the normal rules nevermind gimping them further.

IMHO, YMMV, IME

[Comedian]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

While most people have to abide by the rules in TS, Gunslingers get to run around whilst shooting two pistols at once

You don't really need gunslinger to do this, you only need Dual-Weapon Attack (pistol), CQB (Pistol) and optionally Off-Hand Weapon Training Pistol and increased perception. Not nearly as good as gunslinger, but achievable in a realistic game.