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Old 07-16-2019, 10:44 PM   #1
Phantasm
 
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Default Chthonic Deity trait: touch spirit w/out harm?

I'm trying to figure out the best way to give a chthonic deity type character* - like Hela, Hades, Anubis, Osiris, Charon, etc. - the ability to touch the insubstantial spirit of a dead person as if the spirit was corporeal.

Every option I've uncovered is either not rules legal - Insubstantiality (Not Actually Insubstantial)† - or is geared for harming malevolent supernatural spirits. I don't want this deity to necessarily harm the spirits, just grab them by the hand/shoulder and guide them, or beating them off with a stick if they get rowdy.

Thoughts?




* For the record, this is for the Greek underworld gods - Charon, Hades, Persephone, and Hecate - but may also be valid for Hela when I get around to statting her up.
† As evidenced by the many discussions about Neutralize (Power Theft; No Neutralization), hence not an option.
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:01 AM   #2
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Default Re: Chthonic Deity trait: touch spirit w/out harm?

Blessed(ghost weapon) from MH should do it, I think.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:03 AM   #3
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Default Re: Chthonic Deity trait: touch spirit w/out harm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
Blessed(ghost weapon) from MH should do it, I think.
I think thats good enough, you could also add Affects Insubstantial modifier to ST.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:21 AM   #4
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2
 
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Default Re: Chthonic Deity trait: touch spirit w/out harm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I think thats good enough, you could also add Affects Insubstantial modifier to ST.
Shouldn't the AI enhancement also be applied to DX? You want to manipulate the insubstantial world, not just lift and punch it.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:28 AM   #5
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: Chthonic Deity trait: touch spirit w/out harm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I think thats good enough, you could also add Affects Insubstantial modifier to ST.
ST w/ Affects Insub. was my first thought, although I don't see a problem with allowing Insub. (only for interacting with other Insubs) at a substantial discount,

heh
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: Chthonic Deity trait: touch spirit w/out harm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
Blessed(ghost weapon) from MH should do it, I think.
Looking at its breakdown from "Blessed Be" (Pyramid #3/78), Ghost Weapon is explicitly for weapons. It's also explicitly for Evil supernatural powers. It's built off of Static, so let's build this the same way.

If Spirit is a Power modifier, we can simply build it as follows: Static (Spirit; One Ability, Insubstantiality -80%) [6]. This will let Hades grapple and make unarmed strikes against insubstantial spirits, but he can't harm them with mundane weapons. To add that functionality, you'll need to add in Affects Others (Weapons Only -30%) +35%, for [16.5] (round up to [17]). To work against Insubstantiality from any Power source - or even with no Power modifier - you need to throw in Cosmic, All Sources +300%, increasing price to [96] or [106.5] (round up to [107]), respectively. This would be a good case for Multiplicative Modifiers, which changes the above prices to [6], [8.1] (round up to [9]), [24], and [26.1] (round up to [27]), respectively.
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Old 07-17-2019, 09:32 AM   #7
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: Chthonic Deity trait: touch spirit w/out harm?

Wouldn't Insubstantial with the Partial Change modifier cover this?
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:21 AM   #8
WingedKagouti
 
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Default Re: Chthonic Deity trait: touch spirit w/out harm?

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Wouldn't Insubstantial with the Partial Change modifier cover this?
Technically yes.

I'd also consider a -80% Partial Only (if the deity in question can't turn themself or objects they're carrying insubstantial).
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:16 AM   #9
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Default Re: Chthonic Deity trait: touch spirit w/out harm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
Shouldn't the AI enhancement also be applied to DX? You want to manipulate the insubstantial world, not just lift and punch it.
Nope. We already have RAW for ST enhancements, none of them requiring DX,
DX would be getting your arm to the right spot, STis whats used to affect it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Wouldn't Insubstantial with the Partial Change modifier cover this?
Thats another good one!
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:53 AM   #10
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Chthonic Deity trait: touch spirit w/out harm?

In my Aersalus campaign the elves there are fully in the spirit and physical world at the same time. I gave them a variation of See Invisible "Touch Intangible" to allow them to touch spirits.
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