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Old 04-15-2010, 03:06 PM   #31
Archangel Beth
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Default Re: Gaming and the Corporate World

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Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
Don't forget that In Nomine is an inherently cinematic game - yes, you can run realistic games with the rules, but that isn't what they're designed to do. If you want to go with Hollywood Logic and say a corporate CEO works the same shift as a mailroom new-hire, more power to you.
*nod* It's always nice to have a grounding in reality, but sometimes it gets in the way of Cool Stuff. (All nods to the Demon of Cool...) I do, however, suggest that as you firm up your idea of where you want your intersection of reality and cinema... write down guidelines so that you can hand them to your player and either invite discussion or say, "This is as far as I can go before my suspense of disbelief cracks and the game becomes Un-Fun for me anymore and Archangels Fall, Everybody Dies."
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:21 PM   #32
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Guns are nice, but we're still talking In Nomine -- a 50 caliber, 150 grain round from a high powered sniper rifle with a scope at just enough range for the bullet to hit terminal velocity should pretty much destroy anything it hits, but alas, it hardly puts a dent in most of the antagonists (unable to rationalize this, ...
Vessels are, by their very nature, not actually part of the Symphony. Thus, it is unreasonable to assume that anything that is part of the Symphony - such as a small piece of metal moving very quickly - will have the same effect on a Vessel that it would on something that is part of the Symphony.

However, Superiors do make an honest effort (or a dishonest effort, in the case of some Demon Princes) to ensure the Vessels they make for their Servitors behave in ways similar to the ways actual bodies behave. Not where it would be inconvenient, of course (thus the removal of the requirement to eat or sleep), but they do try to have Vessels blend in. Hence, bullets do some damage to a Vessel. The closer the Vessel's hit points are to an actual human's hit points, the better the Vessel responds to certain stimuli.

(How's that for a rationalization?)

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... or say, "This is as far as I can go before my suspense of disbelief cracks and the game becomes Un-Fun for me anymore and Archangels Fall, Everybody Dies."
Except for whoever Novalis dropped onto. She wouldn't kill anything... <g>
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:14 PM   #33
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Except for whoever Novalis dropped onto. She wouldn't kill anything... <g>
Killing? What a gauche way to put it. She's recycling. Those flowers have to be fertilized somehow ...
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:54 PM   #34
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Default Re: Gaming and the Corporate World

It just occurred to me that we were concentrating on the gun aspect so much we forgot his initial questions.

What's the difference between a corporate takeover and a merger?
What responsibilities does a CEO have and how are they different from those of a president, a major shareholder or a member of the board of directors?
When in role, who does the character answer to?


I believe Rocket Man did his usual awesome job answering these. I know I'll find them handy. Thanks Rocket Man!

Who are his greatest competitors?

For what? His position? I would say the people directly below him, like his assistants and such. Remember, when you are climbing up the ladder, there is always someone trying to knock you off. Aren't you always looking for a promotion?

Most importantly, what elements of the corporate world can I utilize to enhance the quality of my story?

What can't you utilize? Anything and everything you find is always good for adding more authenticity to a story and that is always great for getting the players more emotionally involved.

Looking for info on the corporate world is a challenge because there is so much. It would be better if you had more specific questions and Google or Wiki them. My very first job out of college was at a global corporation and I can give you my observations (for all it's worth)

In a corporation, there are so many people, promotions are hard to come by. Standing out was tough, and if you are really good you probably won't get promoted because you are too valuable where you are. That was my mistake. I was too good at what I was doing. They wouldn't fire me (I survived three rounds of layoffs) and they couldn't promote me because no one else could do my job half as well as I did. It was frustrating. Networking was very important. You never know who could open that door for you, so it was very important to be able to meet people, talk to them (and most importantly), have them remember you.

Something to think about is how the corporate office are run. When I was working there, we had two buildings. One was where R&D and marketing took place. So our building was very casual. Jeans and t-shirt was the standard dress code and there were posters and other fun stuff everywhere. This building was very fun and casual. The other building was where the Board's offices were, and it was where all the wheeling and dealing took place. That place was very business formal. Everyone was dressed in proper business attire and I used to hate going there. In my building, people would joke and laugh but then I would go to this other building and I felt very out of place. My sneakers would echo and it was very quiet. Everyone whispered and it was a very sterile atmosphere.

One of the most important person in any department we used to refer to as the 'gatekeeper'. This person (me in this case) was the pointperson for their department to the rest of the company. This was to ensure that only the most important things got in the door because 80% of the time the gatekeeper is able to do it. For instance, I was the gatekeeper for the Creative Department. We did all of the promotional pieces and packaging for products. Most of the time people wanted PDFs of things, or other assets and I was the one who got it to them so that the designers weren't interrupted. At one point there were people in Europe and Asia who knew my name because no one will talk to them. They would forward their emails to me to take care of it.

Everything was on schedules and they were made way in advance. Everything we worked on we had at least eight months from talking about it to actually getting it done. And our stuff came in towards the end of the big project, which was usually on a three year time table. Milestones were set and HAD to be met, no exceptions.

But one thing that always struck me, every year the head of my department always had to cut costs by 5-7%. If we came under budget, we would scramble to use up whatever was left because otherwise our budget would be cut by whatever we had managed to save. The logic being, if you didn't use it this year then you don't need it next year. So there was always pressure to meet our budget, exactly. I never understood that. It was like we were being punished for being smart.

I am not sure if this helps at all. If it doesn't I'll apologize now. But feel free to ask me to clarify things. Just because it makes sense to me doesn't mean it makes sense to anyone else...:P
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:51 AM   #35
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Vessels are, by their very nature, not actually part of the Symphony. Thus, it is unreasonable to assume that anything that is part of the Symphony - such as a small piece of metal moving very quickly - will have the same effect on a Vessel that it would on something that is part of the Symphony.
While I don't want to take this into a completely different vein of conversation, I will say this much: I agree with your rationalization to an extent. A demon should, for the most part, be able to survive a number of things that a human shouldn't because of his connection to his vessel.

I do not agree that an unsuspecting demon in a human vessel (which behaves like a regular human vessel in most ways) should be able to survive a high-powered, high-caliber, high-gunpowder-packed sniper rifle round fired at terminal velocity when it connects directly with his forehead. At the very least, I think that if it didn't make his head explode, it would open up a new can of worms for anyone who witnessed the event.

I get what you're saying: it's just a metal shell, and he's an immortal entity bound into a vessel constructed by a Demon Prince. I still think his head should pop like a ripe melon in a Gallagher show. Maybe it's the human in me? Even if you score a miss with that weapon, they say that the force of the round is so powerful that can wrench away body parts. Now, a demon who has enough consciousness to activate a song of healing, or who has an operative shield...well, that's a different story.

Unfortunately, hit points work exactly the same way for humans as they do for Celestials. Systematically, a human with toughness/2, corporeal forces/3 and a strength/8 is no different from a demon with vessel/2, corporeal forces/3, strength/8 (with the exception that the human pays more.)

Cinematically they're different, but systematically they have the exact same HP.

Even a really powerful rifle with an Accuracy +2, Power +8 isn't going to one-shot someone with 40 HP. I've considered trying to generate rules for called shots, but I wouldn't know where to start.

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However, Superiors do make an honest effort (or a dishonest effort, in the case of some Demon Princes) to ensure the Vessels they make for their Servitors behave in ways similar to the ways actual bodies behave. Not where it would be inconvenient, of course (thus the removal of the requirement to eat or sleep), but they do try to have Vessels blend in. Hence, bullets do some damage to a Vessel. The closer the Vessel's hit points are to an actual human's hit points, the better the Vessel responds to certain stimuli.

(How's that for a rationalization?)
Cinematically, your reasoning is totally sound.

Feel free to PM me if you want to expound on this. I'd love to swap ideas.

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Except for whoever Novalis dropped onto. She wouldn't kill anything... <g>
I <3 Novalis.
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:11 AM   #36
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Default Re: Gaming and the Corporate World

I happen to agree. A vessel is a refined human body, but it remains a human body. It needs no sleep or food, is immune from disease, and can take any blood type.

However, if they could wish away drug interactions, they would. Drowning is darned inconvienient. Why didn't they put a fix in for that?

The obvious answer is that they can't, at least not at a price they are willing to pay. If an angel wants a 'shambling corpse' vessel, i.e. one who can withstand these huge amounts of damage, well, there is Vessel/6. Go buy it. You don't get it at Vessel/1.

So while bones are slightly to significantly reinforced, blood clotting is almost miraculous, shock happens to other people (and believe me, shock is a killer! That alone justifies the resistance of Celestials), having most of one's gray matter spread over the street is a death blow.
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:43 AM   #37
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It just occurred to me that we were concentrating on the gun aspect so much we forgot his initial questions.
Thank you for bringing these back up. The more and more I consider them, however, the more and more I feel like I should have posted this in the role-playing in general section. I can't say that I regret posting it here, though -- the answers that you guys have provided were really indispensable.

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Who are his greatest competitors?

For what? His position? I would say the people directly below him, like his assistants and such. Remember, when you are climbing up the ladder, there is always someone trying to knock you off. Aren't you always looking for a promotion?
This was where I was running into problem. After some cursory research, I know a little bit about the board, the chairmen, the bylaws, and differences between the CEO and COO -- but I have no clue what position titles are beneath that, nor what their functions are. So, while "the guy beneath him" is one of the answers I was looking for, I've really struggled to find out what position that guy would hold. Now, I can make a character who's ambitious, pretentious and an asset to the company (maybe someone in sales and marketing?), but I'd probably have to resort to making up his office title.

I have scoured the website for Heckler & Koch, which really proved fruitful in some regards. For example, they have a list of dealers in California for civilian and LE, which provide me with excellent fodder for secretarial jargon "You have an appointment with Mr. Webb with Shoot Straight at 5:00PM, sir."

Initially, though, I was thinking about business competitors from outside of H&K. The question (though broad), was intended to ask things like "What other megacorporations would he have to contend with, and how might they clash?"

Although...a Balseraph of War would make a hell of an ambitious marketing agent!


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Originally Posted by ladyarcana55 View Post
Most importantly, what elements of the corporate world can I utilize to enhance the quality of my story?

What can't you utilize? Anything and everything you find is always good for adding more authenticity to a story and that is always great for getting the players more emotionally involved.
There is a lot. So far, I've found that if I focus on the characters, the rest will come into play. My problem is that I sometimes focus so heavily on being authentic that I don't give enough attention to designing the story.

Looking back on it, that was a really vague question.
[/quote]


[QUOTE=ladyarcana55;967637]
Looking for info on the corporate world is a challenge because there is so much.

You've got that right! It's so easy to get overwhelmed by it all.

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It would be better if you had more specific questions and Google or Wiki them.
I think a better question -- and one I should have asked at first, would be this:

What are some common corporate divisions and office titles, and what are their functions?

I know that question is probably one of the hardest to answer, because efforts to research it have proved fruitless. This is one of those things where I could really use someone like you, who has experience working for a corporation -- even if it was totally different!

I believe a previous poster suggested asking around to see if there are any role-playing games based on the corporate world? Not a bad idea at all (although probably best tailored for Role-Playing in General). If anyone knows off-hand, PM me.

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My very first job out of college was at a global corporation and I can give you my observations (for all it's worth)
They're worth a great deal. Anyone who has any experience in the corporate world is a worthwhile source in my book!


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In a corporation, there are so many people, promotions are hard to come by. Standing out was tough, and if you are really good you probably won't get promoted because you are too valuable where you are. That was my mistake. I was too good at what I was doing. They wouldn't fire me (I survived three rounds of layoffs) and they couldn't promote me because no one else could do my job half as well as I did. It was frustrating.
This happens when you work in a jail as well -- to a degree. While promotions may not be more difficult to obtain, it sometimes seems like people who are really good at their jobs get stuck working high-liability posts even when they despise them. My friend, who is a top-notch pizza-hut manager, has been denied a promotion to General Manager several times and is now being moved to another location that is WAY away from his home because he has a reputation for being a rockstar in the workplace and they need someone to "clean up" the store that he'd being shipped off to.

Unfortunately, whereas my friend may take this as an opportunity to prove himself and eventually become a GM (where he will also be bumped around from store to store in an effort to get everyone to fall in line, I have no doubt), or someone who works a high-liability post is MORE eligible for promotion...the corporate world sort of sounds rough. You're basically talking about balancing your performance so that you are not completely irreplaceable by any means, but industrious enough that you always avoid a layoff.
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:44 AM   #38
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Networking was very important. You never know who could open that door for you, so it was very important to be able to meet people, talk to them (and most importantly), have them remember you.
I'll make a note of developing this characters friends as well as his enemies in detail so that we have more than bare bones basics.

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Something to think about is how the corporate office are run. When I was working there, we had two buildings. One was where R&D and marketing took place. So our building was very casual. Jeans and t-shirt was the standard dress code and there were posters and other fun stuff everywhere. This building was very fun and casual. The other building was where the Board's offices were, and it was where all the wheeling and dealing took place. That place was very business formal. Everyone was dressed in proper business attire and I used to hate going there. In my building, people would joke and laugh but then I would go to this other building and I felt very out of place. My sneakers would echo and it was very quiet. Everyone whispered and it was a very sterile atmosphere.
What I wouldn't give for 30 minutes with an H&K CEO, eh? Trouble is, as a GM, I often find myself asking (what other people perceive to be) completely frivolous questions. If I understood corporations, next I'd want to understand local politics, if I understood local politics, I'd want to understand national politics, or international politics, or local/state/international law, or guns, or the stock market, or hacking, or quantum physics...

...the most important knowledge (apart from improv), however, is plot-construction.

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One of the most important person in any department we used to refer to as the 'gatekeeper'. This person (me in this case) was the pointperson for their department to the rest of the company. This was to ensure that only the most important things got in the door because 80% of the time the gatekeeper is able to do it. For instance, I was the gatekeeper for the Creative Department. We did all of the promotional pieces and packaging for products. Most of the time people wanted PDFs of things, or other assets and I was the one who got it to them so that the designers weren't interrupted. At one point there were people in Europe and Asia who knew my name because no one will talk to them. They would forward their emails to me to take care of it.
When I first heard that word, I immediately thought of "social networking." The idea being that the "gatekeeper" holds the key to the next level of management. I've read this paragraph a couple of times, but my brain is getting fuzzy from lack of sleep. Are you saying that you were like the key player within your department when it came to presenting ideas to upper-management and filtering out garbage (by "garbage" I mean overdone or idiotic requests and submissions from other people in your department)? Like a liaison to upper-management, or more like a channel from one department of the company to the next?

Is there a gatekeeper for every department within a corporation?

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Everything was on schedules and they were made way in advance. Everything we worked on we had at least eight months from talking about it to actually getting it done. And our stuff came in towards the end of the big project, which was usually on a three year time table. Milestones were set and HAD to be met, no exceptions.
I wonder what sort of deadlines would apply to a gun company when there is now manufacturing plant in the state? Probably policy reviews, financial plans, the manufacturing of a gun-plant, contract renewals, etc.

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But one thing that always struck me, every year the head of my department always had to cut costs by 5-7%. If we came under budget, we would scramble to use up whatever was left because otherwise our budget would be cut by whatever we had managed to save. The logic being, if you didn't use it this year then you don't need it next year. So there was always pressure to meet our budget, exactly. I never understood that. It was like we were being punished for being smart.
...weird. You know what's funny? Corrections does the same thing. If they aren't crying about overtime, they're cutting costs however they can. Last year it was mandatory 30 minute breaks, this year it was removing the water-coolers and slapping smokers with a surcharge every pay-period (even after removing all designated smoking areas. You get charged for being a smoker in your off-time!)

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I am not sure if this helps at all. If it doesn't I'll apologize now. But feel free to ask me to clarify things. Just because it makes sense to me doesn't mean it makes sense to anyone else...:P
You were very helpful!

My main "corporate questions" at the moment are these:

What are the most common corporate departments?
What are they responsible for and how do they operate?
What sort of corporate departments is a gun company liable to have?
What are common corporate offices (ranks) and the responsibilities of those offices?

I am a little worried that this is veering too far away from In Nomine...but I'd be willing to have the thread moved. Thanks for your help!
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:18 PM   #39
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When I first heard that word, I immediately thought of "social networking." The idea being that the "gatekeeper" holds the key to the next level of management. I've read this paragraph a couple of times, but my brain is getting fuzzy from lack of sleep. Are you saying that you were like the key player within your department when it came to presenting ideas to upper-management and filtering out garbage (by "garbage" I mean overdone or idiotic requests and submissions from other people in your department)? Like a liaison to upper-management, or more like a channel from one department of the company to the next?

Is there a gatekeeper for every department within a corporation?
The gatekeeper is the person people go to for directions into the department. You tell this person what you need and why you need it and this person will either get it for you or tell you where to go for it. If it's from their department, (s)he will take care of the request. This person usually knows who does what in the department and where to go for things that does not involve the department.

The main function of the gatekeeper was to make sure everyone wasn't bothered with small requests. Yeah it''ll take a minute to fill this request, but if you have ten of them, that's ten minutes you lost on your project.

Not every department has one, but quite a few did. They are awfully useful for a lot of reason. Very few people in the department know it so well. I used to know the project schedules, who was working on what, their meetings, where everything was, everything. They tend to also be the office gopher. Low in rank, but important.

EDIT: I forgot to mention. The gate keeper can also affect how other people within the corporation look at your department. A good gatekeeper is a godsend, and it makes it look like that department is all buttoned up and has it's stuff together. A bad one is a nightmare and can make people think that the department doesn't get anything done.

I was talking to Rocket Man. He said it best when he said

"A good one is a godsend, making everyone's job so much easier. A bad one causes frustrations like you wouldn't believe. And the really efficient one you gotta try to work around."

My response:

"And two gatekeepers working together is comedy."

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I wonder what sort of deadlines would apply to a gun company when there is now manufacturing plant in the state? Probably policy reviews, financial plans, the manufacturing of a gun-plant, contract renewals, etc.
Remember, the main company develops the new technology and then, when it is aproved, send the specs to their other manufacturing plants. Then they have to schedule the training time to learn to make it, marketing to let everyone know it's coming, sales to distribute it, R&D to make sure they are within US specs, legal to cover their butts. There is a lot more to it than you realize.

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Originally Posted by Orlin View Post
What are the most common corporate departments?
What are they responsible for and how do they operate?
Legal (For obvious reasons)
Admin: HR, Payroll, Financial tracking, making sure everyone is working well and smoothly
Marketing: Letting people know they are out there and to explain why they want to buy their products
R&D: Constant research is being done to improve how things are made and how they work.

That's just off the top of my head.

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What sort of corporate departments is a gun company liable to have?
See above and I'll say this...

a HUGE legal team! ALWAYS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlin View Post
What are common corporate offices (ranks) and the responsibilities of those offices?
I'll give you a very general heirarchy...

Department Head, Managers, Supervisors, Lead, Senior

You can take it as you will. A lot of times they are just titles to make it official that this particular person knows what they are doing.

Last edited by ladyarcana55; 04-16-2010 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:31 PM   #40
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Default Re: Gaming and the Corporate World

Another player to remember (if I haven't overlooked it upthread) is the Chief Financial Officer, who has exactly the authority you'd expect: budgets, financial planning, tracking expenses and revenue, and so on. In smaller companies, the CFO is often the head of human resources as well (since he's already overseeing payroll and benefits), and thus a major influence in hiring and firing.

Why does that matter? Because as a trained CPA with access to all the company's financial information, the CFO is the most likely person to spot any "midnight requisitioning" of resources. Of course, if he's an ally or an opponent (that Balseraph of The War perhaps?), he's also the best-positioned to cover up any irregularities.
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