GURPS Fantasy: Portal Realms

[Anthony]

I'm curious: is The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe portal fantasy? Most of the examples people have been talking about seem closer to John Carter of Mars, but there's certainly a decent number of fantasy novels with a quite literal portal.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I'm curious: is The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe portal fantasy? Most of the examples people have been talking about seem closer to John Carter of Mars, but there's certainly a decent number of fantasy novels with a quite literal portal.

I'd call it one of the prototypes of the genre, along with the Alice books. The Narnia series is in my source list, and I have a pullquote from LWW.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If it makes for a good roleplaying session it almost certainly isn't realistic.

I think what I would say is that "realistic," in this sense, is not really the opposite of "fantastic." Of course a lot of GURPS books have used the words that way, including some of mine. But I puzzled over this when I was working on GURPS Adaptations, and eventually I concluded that there are two different antitheses:

1. Stories that avoid the improbable versus stories that allow it for the sake of a more interesting or emotionally intense narrative. This seems to be what you're talking about with your mention of "adventure," and I agree in calling one pole "realistic," but I would call the other "cinematic" or perhaps "epic."

2. Stories that avoid the impossible (things that go against the laws of nature, or that change our understanding of what those laws permit) versus stories for which it's a premise, as in fantasy or Wellsian science fiction or superhero adventure. I think this is what evileeyore means by "fantastic," and I agree with him in calling the other pole "mundane," because that's how GURPS uses that word.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I think what I would say is that "realistic," in this sense, is not really the opposite of "fantastic." Of course a lot of GURPS books have used the words that way, including some of mine. But I puzzled over this when I was working on GURPS Adaptations, and eventually I concluded that there are two different antitheses:

1. Stories that avoid the improbable versus stories that allow it for the sake of a more interesting or emotionally intense narrative. This seems to be what you're talking about with your mention of "adventure," and I agree in calling one pole "realistic," but I would call the other "cinematic" or perhaps "epic."

2. Stories that avoid the impossible (things that go against the laws of nature, or that change our understanding of what those laws permit) versus stories for which it's a premise, as in fantasy or Wellsian science fiction or superhero adventure. I think this is what evileeyore means by "fantastic," and I agree with him in calling the other pole "mundane," because that's how GURPS uses that word.

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly my mental breakdown of the genres.

[SionEwig]

A very interesting write up. I've not settled on exactly what to do with it, but inspiration will strike.

The primary reason I got it was to see what you had written on child characters as that's the campaign I'm currently working on. While most of what you had I'd already considered, there were a number of things that I hadn't considered which will be of use so the purchase price was worth that alone.

One thing I've got a question on is the Math Shy Disadvantage.

Math-Shy is unfamiliarity with advanced arithmetic: -1 to Mathematics and related skills.

What are you considering as "advanced arithmetic?"

Another thing that I'm wondering about is why you had the both the DX and IQ at 9? That's perfectly average for a 12 year old. I would have expected at least one or both to be 10 which goes more with the general trope of a precocious child. Was it primarily that you wanted the point total to be 0?

The only part of the supplement that I personally didn't find useful was the Realms and Campaigns section. The three examples just did nothing for me, though they were all well written. I hope you develop some additional ones in the future (perhaps as a supplement to the supplement). Now, the Source Material was useful, there were some I hadn't come across before. And the Portal Realms As Timelines was interesting.

Some additional books that came to mind as examples of the Fantasy Portal Realm type. Doomfairers of Coramonde (1977) and Starfollowers of Coramonde (1979) by Brian Daley. I'm surprised you didn't mention them. Stairway to Forever and Monsters and Magicians (both 1988) by Robert Adams. Too bad he passed away before more could be written, a rather interesting series. The Haunted Mesa (1987) by Louis L'Amour. In my opinion, one of the best of the genres.

Overall, two thumbs up.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by SionEwig

One thing I've got a question on is the Math Shy Disadvantage.

What are you considering as "advanced arithmetic?"

I suspect it means algebra. Certainly any of the transcendental functions count, but I think anything you can't set up with the correct term isolated the first time is going to give a kid major problems. I was very good with math as a kid, but if you don't have the tools you need, you just can't do things.

As a fifth grader I once tried to invent algebra without knowing what I was doing (I was bored, ok?). I failed miserably: its not something you can pickup without being explicitly taught.

[SionEwig]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I suspect it means algebra. Certainly any of the transcendental functions count, but I think anything you can't set up with the correct term isolated the first time is going to give a kid major problems. I was very good with math as a kid, but if you don't have the tools you need, you just can't do things.

As a fifth grader I once tried to invent algebra without knowing what I was doing (I was bored, ok?). I failed miserably: its not something you can pickup without being explicitly taught.

That's pretty much what I was thinking, but the word used was arithmetic, and not mathematics. So I was hoping for clarification.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by SionEwig

One thing I've got a question on is the Math Shy Disadvantage.

What are you considering as "advanced arithmetic?"

Well, consider to start with that it's a weaker form of Innumerate. If you're outright Innumerate, you can't calculate at all; at most, you might be able to count on your fingers. With Math-Shy, on the other hand, you can calculate. So what do you lack?

From one angle, a lot of post-arithmetic math does involve calculation. If you are solving a quadratic equation, or using trigonometry to work out a length or area, or coming up with a statistical estimate, you have to do arithmetic (whether in your head, on paper, or by punching buttons). A math-shy person could do those things, if they were given step by step instructions. But they wouldn't find the fomulae easy to grasp or remember, and they wouldn't really understand where they came from.

This "where they came from" is another important part. It's one thing to be able to do arithmetic according to a routine. It's another to be able to look at a real world problem and say, "Okay, then I think I want to define it in these terms, and I want to use this formula to solve it."

Let me tell you a story: Many years ago, I was a tutor at a community college, and one of my regular tutees was a pleasant young woman who was studying accounting. So at one point, in explaining a procedure, I posed her "take 1% of a million." She said, "A thousand?" And I said no, and she said, "A hundred thousand?" And I asked her to take out her calculator. She did know how to push the right buttons; but it seemed clear to me that had she made a slip, she wouldn't have recognized her answer as obviously wrong. And yet she was able to do arithmetic in the ordinary sense; she just didn't have a feel for numerical relationships and magnitudes. That "feel" is the launching pad from which you take off into algebra, statistics, trigonometry, calculus, and so on.

Another thing that I'm wondering about is why you had the both the DX and IQ at 9? That's perfectly average for a 12 year old. I would have expected at least one or both to be 10 which goes more with the general trope of a precocious child. Was it primarily that you wanted the point total to be 0?

Actually, no. Consider, for example, the Narnia books, or The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. The children in them are not exceptionally bright, or exceptionally coordinated, or otherwise gifted beyond common measure. They do show an ability to cope with being thrust into a strange world, and keep on pursuing whatever goals they come up with ("We have to fight the Witch" or "I want to get back to Kansas"); and I represent that as Will. But otherwise they're often quite ordinary children, not exceptionally gifted, except in being undaunted by their mysterious journeys. So I took it that there is nothing in the Child role that requires precocity, and I left it out.

Of course, the template costs 0 points, and you almost certainly will not be in a campaign where PCs are built on 0 points! So nothing stops you from running a gifted child if that's what you want to do.