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Old 08-21-2012, 07:37 AM   #1
jacobmuller
 
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Default [HT] Body Armor - errata?

I was looking at some items in High-tech, trying to compare vest inserts with Low-tech pectorals.
Are the DR values for the TL6 silk vest steel plate insert and the sentry armor, pg65-66, still correct?
If the box on pg65 is used with reference to the plate armor values from Low-tech, the HT DRs appear to be too low.
The higher value for the sentry vest would make it proof vs the standard rifles of the period.
And the plate insert appears to be the same grade of armour as the steel corselet which has DR10...
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:09 AM   #2
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Default Re: [HT] Body Armor - errata?

The last time I asked similar questions it got ugly (link), but the short answer is that Dan and Shawn made different assumptions about what constitutes DR x Torso armour. Shawn says that he used "look for a test and say it protects the Torso if it was designed to protect the torso against gunfire whether or not it covers everywhere"; Dan worked on the basis of full-torso coverage and filled in the gaps between the few tests with "the evidence says that armour b is between armours a and c in protection-per-pound so the game stats have to reflect that."
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: [HT] Body Armor - errata?

Folks inclined to go with LowTech stats may be more detail oriented; detail oriented players will probably want to turn many of the torso armors in High Tech into partial coverage armors of various kinds, or note they have large armor gaps in some cases, or whatever.

Unfortunately while being a detail oriented Low-tech lover, I know diddly and/or squat about just about all modern armor, so this isn't a project for me. Fortunately for me, I also don't run modern games ;D
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: [HT] Body Armor - errata?

Sumimasen
If this query might cause an upset, Please beloved Moderator of the Forum, feel free to delete it.
I can always send the query to the errata link if I'm truly concerned.
Domo arrigato gozaimasu, Senpai.
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Last edited by jacobmuller; 08-21-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: [HT] Body Armor - errata?

Your okay. Polydamas summed it up perfectly there. Different assumptions lead to very different results.

Ill provide the following quote I got way back in the day (2004). You could use this as a jumping off point for either figuring out what a full suit ("all" hit locations, like in Ultra Tech) would weigh, or what the coverage on the torso you are looking for would weigh at this protection level. Compare to the vests in High Tech, and you can even extrapolate how to adjust the other protection level vests to fit the assumptions you prefer.

We are pleased to provide the following price quotation:


#1= [1] 54"x 41" Spectra Shield Vehicle Armor Panel NIJ Level III
4.75 lbs per sq.ft.:Thickness:1-1/16" [All Spectra Shield]
[Protection from:5.56 55 gr. ball @ 3080fps,.30 cal.180 gr.sp @2540 fps.
308 NATO 150 gr. FMJ @2750 fps.and lesser threats]
PRICE:$4,216.19 each unit.


#2= [1] 54"x 41" Spectra Shield Vehicle Armor Panel NIJ Level III+
5.25 lbs per sq.ft.:Thickness:1-7/64" [All Spectra Shield]
[Protection from:5.56 55 gr. ball @ 3080fps,.30 cal.180 gr.sp @2540 fps.
308 NATO 150 gr. FMJ @2750 fps.and lesser threats]
PRICE:$4,568.00 each unit.
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: [HT] Body Armor - errata?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans-Christian Vortisch

9/11/06

to GURPS
http://www.closefocusresearch.com/ht..._justice_.html

NIJ I protects against .22 LR and .38 Special, for a maximum of 1d+2 and 2d+1. DR 6-8
NIJ IIA protects against 9x19mm from a pistol or .357 Magnum, for a maximum of 2d+2 and 3d+1. DR 9-12
NIJ II protects against 9x19mm from a SMG or .357 Magnum, for a maximum of 3d-1 and 3d+1. DR 10-12
NIJ IIIA protects against 9x19mm from a SMG or .44 Magnum, for a maximum of 3d-1 and 4d+1. DR 10-15
NIJ III protects against 7.62x51, for a maximum of 7d. DR 25
NIJ IV protects against 7.62x51 AP, for a maximum of 5d(2). DR 35

I'd assign:

NIJ I DR 8
NIJ IIA DR 10
NIJ II DR 12
NIJ IIIA DR 15
NIJ III DR 25
NIJ IV DR 35

Cheers
That should give you the bench marks folks where using for High Tech. I dont have anything similar for either Ultra Tech or Low Tech, the Ultra Tech playtest didnt really cover it and I wasnt on the Low Tech playtest.
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: [HT] Body Armor - errata?

There's a fair amount of variation in weight per square foot, but including some slop for fitting issues, a reasonable estimate is 8 sf for the torso, 2 sf for the head and each arm, 4 sf for each leg. Pretty much every armor in the game is underweight if you require 100% coverage.
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: [HT] Body Armor - errata?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
There's a fair amount of variation in weight per square foot, but including some slop for fitting issues, a reasonable estimate is 8 sf for the torso, 2 sf for the head and each arm, 4 sf for each leg. Pretty much every armor in the game is underweight if you require 100% coverage.
Using that, a DR 25 Breastplate + faulds made of spectra shield (which is hard armor, its spectra stiffened with resin) will weigh 38lbs. Maybe a little less for the gaps (per Low Tech p.101, the armpit basically).
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: [HT] Body Armor - errata?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
If the box on pg65 is used with reference to the plate armor values from Low-tech
No, it explicitly only refers to Basic Set. LT, as far as I know, assumed much more detailed and realistic levels of protection. The intent in HT was to give a back-of-the-envelope sort of ruling for those inclined to use TL8 steel in their medieval armor when jaunting back in time or something. And I believe Doug Cole said the 1/3 titanium rule there should be 1/3 less weight, not 1/3 normal weight, IIRC. Either way, it's really not a hugely realistic ruling, of course -- treating all TL5+ steel the same.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: [HT] Body Armor - errata?

Quote:
Originally Posted by safisher View Post
No, it explicitly only refers to Basic Set. LT, as far as I know, assumed much more detailed and realistic levels of protection. The intent in HT was to give a back-of-the-envelope sort of ruling for those inclined to use TL8 steel in their medieval armor when jaunting back in time or something. And I believe Doug Cole said the 1/3 titanium rule there should be 1/3 less weight, not 1/3 normal weight, IIRC. Either way, it's really not a hugely realistic ruling, of course -- treating all TL5+ steel the same.
Yeah, density of steel is 7.85 g/cc, titanium is 4.51. That's about 40% less weight by density alone. High-grade steel is very, VERY strong, though, so the protection is less, still. "One-third LESS weight" gives Ti armor "rule of cool" improvement levels and doesn't break anything from a "don't be stupid" point of view. Weighs 1/3 of steel armor implies that not only is Ti stronger absolutely than steel by about 2x, it's also less dense, of which the first isn't true.
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