Building a Healing Power that also causes pain

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by mikeejimbo

Ah, sorry, I wasn't being clear at first. I do want it to heal enemies it's used on if they are damaged. I put "healing" in quotes when I explained that the most tactical use of it would probably be to target an undamaged enemy, which wouldn't heal them. (As they're already at full HP.)

Yeah, you'd need a linked a affliction then, not a alternate ability.

[sonic232]

Then use the ability as you listed it, I'd say. Seems about spot on for that. Nuisance effects are for negative reactions (ability looks gross, smells gross or is offensive in some way), abilities being more obvious than usual or some other annoying effects. Pain hurts. There are in-game rules for pain, which is why you'd use the Affliction (pain) + Healing link like you have it. It costs more points because, as you've pointed out, it still has combat applications despite being linked to Healing.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Yeah, you'd need a linked a affliction then, not a alternate ability.

That seems like an odd option. Having an unsplittable Pain + Healing ability (Healing with Linked Affliction) is a bit less useful than having an ability that always causes pain and you can choose if it heals or not, yet the former would cost [43] while the latter would only cost [30]. I think having "Heals Thy Enemies" as a Nuisance Effect on the Alternate Ability is appropriate here.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Varyon

That seems like an odd option. Having an unsplittable Pain + Healing ability (Healing with Linked Affliction) is a bit less useful than having an ability that always causes pain and you can choose if it heals or not, yet the former would cost [43] while the latter would only cost [30]. I think having "Heals Thy Enemies" as a Nuisance Effect on the Alternate Ability is appropriate here.

Right, but healing your enemies and then causing them pain they can't resist seems munchkinable.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Right, but healing your enemies and then causing them pain they can't resist seems munchkinable.

Certainly. What I'm saying is you'd build things as in your version, then when the character tried to use his "Healing" on a target the target would get the choice of accepting the healing (and subsequent pain) or resisting the pain (success also negating the healing). Building it as Healing (Nuisance Effect: Target Suffers Moderate Pain) with an Alternate Ability of Affliction (HT, Moderate Pain, Nuisance Effect: Target's HP is Healed) is a good, balanced hack to manage this, with an end cost of either [30] or [29], depending on how much the second Nuisance Effect is worth.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Certainly. What I'm saying is you'd build things as in your version, then when the character tried to use his "Healing" on a target the target would get the choice of accepting the healing (and subsequent pain) or resisting the pain (success also negating the healing). Building it as Healing (Nuisance Effect: Target Suffers Moderate Pain) with an Alternate Ability of Affliction (HT, Moderate Pain, Nuisance Effect: Target's HP is Healed) is a good, balanced hack to manage this, with an end cost of either [30] or [29], depending on how much the second Nuisance Effect is worth.

Apologies. I misread you...that is not a bad idea. In fact, that's a damn good idea. Yeah, I like this. Heal some HP and take the pain or just resist the pain. That's very elegant.

[Not]

"No pain no gain."

[mikeejimbo]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Certainly. What I'm saying is you'd build things as in your version, then when the character tried to use his "Healing" on a target the target would get the choice of accepting the healing (and subsequent pain) or resisting the pain (success also negating the healing). Building it as Healing (Nuisance Effect: Target Suffers Moderate Pain) with an Alternate Ability of Affliction (HT, Moderate Pain, Nuisance Effect: Target's HP is Healed) is a good, balanced hack to manage this, with an end cost of either [30] or [29], depending on how much the second Nuisance Effect is worth.

I think this is the sort of build that best gives me what I'm looking for. Thank you!

[sonic232]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Certainly. What I'm saying is you'd build things as in your version, then when the character tried to use his "Healing" on a target the target would get the choice of accepting the healing (and subsequent pain) or resisting the pain (success also negating the healing). Building it as Healing (Nuisance Effect: Target Suffers Moderate Pain) with an Alternate Ability of Affliction (HT, Moderate Pain, Nuisance Effect: Target's HP is Healed) is a good, balanced hack to manage this, with an end cost of either [30] or [29], depending on how much the second Nuisance Effect is worth.

Neither of those Nuisance Effects are in the RAW. Nuisance Effects are for gross or offensive effects (Reaction Penalty), making it so you cannot hide your effect (Ability Makes You Obvious) or some inconsequential effect that has pretty much nothing to do with the ability (attracts stinging insects would be viable, causes pain, harm or healing would not). RAW says for Nuisance Effect: You cannot take a valuable power as a Nuisance Effect. Pain and Healing are valuable powers.

His original build was just fine.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by sonic232

His original build was just fine.

His original build cost too much, because it was rather demonstrably less useful than having Healing and Affliction (Pain) that were separate, and yet it cost more. Causing pain when healing someone is a drawback when healing a friendly, an advantage when "healing" a foe. Causing healing is a drawback when using your pain ability on a foe. A character with one or the other (Healing with Causes Pain or Pain with Causes Healing) would be abusive, but a character with both has all his bases covered and wouldn't be abusive (he has paid for Healing with the drawback of causing pain for friendlies, and has paid for Pain with the drawback of causing healing for enemies). As it's really the same power, of course, the GM can allow them to be Alternate Abilities.