[HT] What does a workshop cover?

Valadrim · 03-20-2014, 03:53 PM

It is not very clear if a workshop (page 24 HT) covers one specialty or all specialties of a skill. The relevant text seems to be this. "Tool kits are essential to repair skills (see p. B190). A separate kit is required for Electrician, Machinist, and each specialty of Armoury, Electronics Repair, and Mechanic" That seems to clearly suggest every tool set option must be specialized. However the individual descriptions inject some cause for wonder.

A Mini-Tool Kit "It gives a -2 (quality) modifier for the specific skill and specialty for which it’s designed."

Clearly useless out side of the specialty.

A Portable Tool Kit "It counts as basic equipment for the specific skill and specialty for which it’s designed, and gives a -2 (quality) modifier for other specialties of the same skill."

Ok, again, clearly pick a specialty but this one is useful at a penalty for all other specialties under the same skill.

A Workshop "It gives a +2 (quality) bonus to skill. Each skill requires its own shop, but the wrong type of shop is better than nothing – the quality modifier ranges from -2 for reasonably close crafts to -5 for distant ones."

Well this is where I get confused, it doesn't talk about specialties but skills. So is an armoury workshop just as good at making body armor as it is small arms, but might give you a -2 when trying to use it as a machinist shop and a -5 when trying to use it as a mechanic (steam power plant) shop?

Or would it have to be an armoury (small arms) workshop and it would give no bonus or penalty to armoury (body armor) use. Or would it give a -2 penalty to the armoury (body armor) making the shop great for small arms, but no more useful than an out of specialty Portable Tool Kit?

Dwarf99 · 03-20-2014, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valadrim

Well this is where I get confused, it doesn't talk about specialties but skills. So is an armoury workshop just as good at making body armor as it is small arms, but might give you a -2 when trying to use it as a machinist shop and a -5 when trying to use it as a mechanic (steam power plant) shop?

I think it's more like -2 for a Machinist Shop and -5 for A Jewelery Shop

CoyoteGestalt · 03-21-2014, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwarf99

I think it's more like -2 for a Machinist Shop and -5 for A Jewelery Shop

This is a case where it's probably worth varying it depending upon the task involved for the craft; using an Armoury shop to replace a lost locket clasp might be at -3 or so (manufacturing a replacement clasp isn't all that different from manufacturing a replacement firing pin), while cutting and polishing an emerald might be at -5 or even worse, the tools are wildly inappropriate and not even made to work on the right scale.

I'm still not sure about the original specialties question, though. Ignoring questions of specialty may just be a simplifying assumption for the sake of playability, since adjudicating the penalty between different partially-overlapping specialties would almost require that the GM have the skill themself! ("OK, so this is a Mechanic (marine engines) shop and you want to use it for Mechanic (large powerboat), you'll take no penalty to repair the HP loss on the engine but -2 on the bent driveshaft and a -3 to repair the damaged strakes...."*)

* I emphatically do not have Mechanic (any of the above), as I have probably just demonstrated to anyone here who does. Are these even parts you would find on the same boat?

Barghaest · 03-21-2014, 06:35 AM

I believe the default workshops assume all specialties of a skill are covered. If you wanted to make a "Small arms" only workshop, you'd actually just buy a higher quality tool kit for that skill (or you could discount the workshop).

PTTG · 03-21-2014, 11:47 AM

After a while, it gets to be more determined by culture, TL, and class (engineering, machining, or technician) than by specific skill. A garage full of metric tools might have all the tools you need for TL 8 maintenance of virtually anything... except for anything in imperial.

For small kits, though, specialized skill uses make the most sense.

~~Peter Knutsen~~ · 03-21-2014, 11:21 PM

I'd also like to know whether one really needs to purchase two full tool kits or workshops in order to fully cover two specialties of the same skill.

Or if there ought to be an option for kit Enhancements, such as perhaps +50% to cost and +33% to weight and volume per added specialty beyond the first. That way, if you want an armoury kit that covers 4 specialties, instead of one, cost is +150% and weight and volume +100%.

As opposed to what the RAW implies, which is that cost, weight and volume would all be +300%, because you do not in fact have one extra-broad kit but instead four seperate kits.

(The four seperate kits does have the benefit of allowing 4 times as many characters to use it simultaneosly, which is why I think my proposed Enhanced kit concept is balanced in principle. Heck, another benefit of the four separate kits is that you can split it up, and e.g. only bring one kit with you in the party's van, to save on encumbrance - doing that with an Enhanced kit should be impossible, although some temporary weight reduction should be feasible if you're willing to spend hours trimming it down.)

03-20-2014, 03:53 PM	#1
Valadrim Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bremerton, WA	[HT] What does a workshop cover? It is not very clear if a workshop (page 24 HT) covers one specialty or all specialties of a skill. The relevant text seems to be this. "Tool kits are essential to repair skills (see p. B190). A separate kit is required for Electrician, Machinist, and each specialty of Armoury, Electronics Repair, and Mechanic" That seems to clearly suggest every tool set option must be specialized. However the individual descriptions inject some cause for wonder. A Mini-Tool Kit "It gives a -2 (quality) modifier for the specific skill and specialty for which it’s designed." Clearly useless out side of the specialty. A Portable Tool Kit "It counts as basic equipment for the specific skill and specialty for which it’s designed, and gives a -2 (quality) modifier for other specialties of the same skill." Ok, again, clearly pick a specialty but this one is useful at a penalty for all other specialties under the same skill. A Workshop "It gives a +2 (quality) bonus to skill. Each skill requires its own shop, but the wrong type of shop is better than nothing – the quality modifier ranges from -2 for reasonably close crafts to -5 for distant ones." Well this is where I get confused, it doesn't talk about specialties but skills. So is an armoury workshop just as good at making body armor as it is small arms, but might give you a -2 when trying to use it as a machinist shop and a -5 when trying to use it as a mechanic (steam power plant) shop? Or would it have to be an armoury (small arms) workshop and it would give no bonus or penalty to armoury (body armor) use. Or would it give a -2 penalty to the armoury (body armor) making the shop great for small arms, but no more useful than an out of specialty Portable Tool Kit?

03-21-2014, 06:35 AM	#4
Barghaest Join Date: Apr 2007	Re: [HT] What does a workshop cover? I believe the default workshops assume all specialties of a skill are covered. If you wanted to make a "Small arms" only workshop, you'd actually just buy a higher quality tool kit for that skill (or you could discount the workshop).

03-21-2014, 11:47 AM	#5
PTTG Join Date: Feb 2011	Re: [HT] What does a workshop cover? After a while, it gets to be more determined by culture, TL, and class (engineering, machining, or technician) than by specific skill. A garage full of metric tools might have all the tools you need for TL 8 maintenance of virtually anything... except for anything in imperial. For small kits, though, specialized skill uses make the most sense.

03-21-2014, 11:21 PM	#6
~~Peter Knutsen~~ Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Europe	Re: [HT] What does a workshop cover? I'd also like to know whether one really needs to purchase two full tool kits or workshops in order to fully cover two specialties of the same skill. Or if there ought to be an option for kit Enhancements, such as perhaps +50% to cost and +33% to weight and volume per added specialty beyond the first. That way, if you want an armoury kit that covers 4 specialties, instead of one, cost is +150% and weight and volume +100%. As opposed to what the RAW implies, which is that cost, weight and volume would all be +300%, because you do not in fact have one extra-broad kit but instead four seperate kits. (The four seperate kits does have the benefit of allowing 4 times as many characters to use it simultaneosly, which is why I think my proposed Enhanced kit concept is balanced in principle. Heck, another benefit of the four separate kits is that you can split it up, and e.g. only bring one kit with you in the party's van, to save on encumbrance - doing that with an Enhanced kit should be impossible, although some temporary weight reduction should be feasible if you're willing to spend hours trimming it down.)