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Old 12-03-2018, 10:00 PM   #1
Kirk
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default IQ attribute increase and talent/spell

Maybe someone has a rules quote for this, or it is somewhere else discussed, but if IQ is increased through XP, does this automatically give one talent/spell point for expenditure, or do attribute increases only increase the attribute?
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:34 PM   #2
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell

The consensus seems to be that you do NOT gain a talent point when your IQ rises. Some people argued that perhaps you should, but I haven't seen any plausible argument that you intended to get a free talent when your IQ goes up.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:49 PM   #3
hcobb
 
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Default Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell

The current ruleset is strongly biased to starting with wimpy nerd experts who buy as much of their IQ (and talents) up front as possible.

The beefiest starting archetype I've seen is the Light Crossbow sniper, and that only works because he maxes out missile weapons expertise.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:39 PM   #4
platimus
 
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Default Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
The current ruleset is strongly biased to starting with wimpy nerd experts who buy as much of their IQ (and talents) up front as possible.

The beefiest starting archetype I've seen is the Light Crossbow sniper, and that only works because he maxes out missile weapons expertise.
I think that's your bias, not the ruleset's bias.
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Old 12-04-2018, 04:48 AM   #5
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
Maybe someone has a rules quote for this, or it is somewhere else discussed, but if IQ is increased through XP, does this automatically give one talent/spell point for expenditure, or do attribute increases only increase the attribute?
The RAW don't say that you get a talent point.

One session to raise IQ by a point for a 32-point character and five sessions to learn a spell, however, just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Starting off with one talent point per IQ point and then breaking that pattern doesn't make sense either.

So we play it that raising IQ gives you talent points.
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Old 12-04-2018, 06:37 AM   #6
Helborn
 
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Default Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
The RAW don't say that you get a talent point.

One session to raise IQ by a point for a 32-point character and five sessions to learn a spell, however, just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Starting off with one talent point per IQ point and then breaking that pattern doesn't make sense either.

So we play it that raising IQ gives you talent points.
I agree - that is the way I am playing it
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Old 12-04-2018, 09:35 AM   #7
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell

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Originally Posted by platimus View Post
I think that's your bias, not the ruleset's bias.
I concur; the only response to the changes that I've seen in players is that they recognize a high IQ starting hero is a valid option (though they've not tried it in practice yet), and they are investing in IQ early so that they can reach the interesting talents (IQ 10-12) before their stat advancement stops. I consider these to be very healthy for the game, as it means heroes have pressure to advance all three stats, just as wizards always have, yet leaves room for specialized extreme characters (e.g., the IQ 20 wizard) at the margins.
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Old 12-04-2018, 09:37 AM   #8
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell

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Originally Posted by Helborn View Post
I agree - that is the way I am playing it
I'm not doing this; I'm playing what I interpret to be RAW: raising IQ and gaining talents are separate things. Ironically, all the players are more focused on raising IQ for heroes because the talents they'll be able to access are so good.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:01 AM   #9
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I concur; the only response to the changes that I've seen in players is that they recognize a high IQ starting hero is a valid option (though they've not tried it in practice yet), and they are investing in IQ early so that they can reach the interesting talents (IQ 10-12) before their stat advancement stops. I consider these to be very healthy for the game, as it means heroes have pressure to advance all three stats, just as wizards always have, yet leaves room for specialized extreme characters (e.g., the IQ 20 wizard) at the margins.
The XP cost difference still maintains this tradeoff if you allow IQ to generate talent points after creation so it's just as healthy.

It basically stretches "creation time" out to 36 points. After that, it's more expensive for an attribute point than a talent point.

Last edited by zot; 12-04-2018 at 10:04 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:42 AM   #10
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: IQ attribute increase and talent/spell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helborn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
The RAW don't say that you get a talent point.

One session to raise IQ by a point for a 32-point character and five sessions to learn a spell, however, just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Starting off with one talent point per IQ point and then breaking that pattern doesn't make sense either.

So we play it that raising IQ gives you talent points.
I agree - that is the way I am playing it
I agree with all those reasons, and also because of the massive XP savings that otherwise are only available by starting with higher IQ, as well as the fun of being a low-level character and being able to actually get a few new talents/spells as you develop at first as in old TFT, as opposed to requiring as much XP as it would take to buy several attribute points to even get 1 point of talents/spells by raising IQ.

I'm also keeping the old rules for time and sources required to learn new talents and spells.
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