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Old 12-03-2018, 09:55 PM   #1
Kirk
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Brawling and UC talents

I've been doing some investigative play testing of deltas between new and old version. What is the verdict on the bonuses for Brawling and UC talents?

Dirty fighting seems a go to unless in a special adventure situation, so that's +2 to strength-based damage, then if someone also has UC I, II, III, etc. the adds can be quite a bit.

We are tempted to play the "unscientific" Brawling damage bonuses separate from the "scientific" Kung Fu UC talents, so that the damage is not added together, because if they are it makes for some mighty powerful HTH and otherwise strikers.

Thoughts? Any rules references on how to treat these two types of talents?
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:33 PM   #2
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Brawling and UC talents

I definitely would not add them together. It is an oversight that this wasn't specified in the rules, but it is in keeping with how most of the rules clearly work: you don't stack bonuses from multiple chains of talents.
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Old 12-04-2018, 05:05 AM   #3
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Brawling and UC talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
I've been doing some investigative play testing of deltas between new and old version. What is the verdict on the bonuses for Brawling and UC talents?

Dirty fighting seems a go to unless in a special adventure situation, so that's +2 to strength-based damage, then if someone also has UC I, II, III, etc. the adds can be quite a bit.

We are tempted to play the "unscientific" Brawling damage bonuses separate from the "scientific" Kung Fu UC talents, so that the damage is not added together, because if they are it makes for some mighty powerful HTH and otherwise strikers.

Thoughts? Any rules references on how to treat these two types of talents?
The original writeup on the website said they didn't stack but for some reason he didn't include that in the rules.

I asked about this earlier when SJ was soliciting feedback before publishing but either he overlooked that post or decided to allow the combination. I've gotten no responses that I know of from SJ on any of my UC questions after publishing.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:38 PM   #4
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Brawling and UC talents

I think we are on our own for the time being when it comes to resolving rules ambiguities. The style of the game means there are lots of them, but I think you can arrive at consistent rulings if you just focus on staying conservative and conforming to the basic 'trade space' of character abilities that typify the core rules. Basically, if you can think of a sneaky trick that buys you an extra couple of points of damage or modifier on a to-hit roll, then you should conclude it is disallowed unless a clear, direct passage from the published rules supports it. In my experience, TFT is perhaps the best balanced combat engine among established table top roleplaying games, but it is easy to break with house rules (or unconservative rulings) - as soon as players spot a 'get rich quick' scheme in the rules, balance is out the window.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:01 AM   #5
RVA_Grandpa
 
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Richmond, VA, USA
Default Re: Brawling and UC talents

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
The original writeup on the website said they didn't stack but for some reason he didn't include that in the rules.
At the very bottom of page 39 of ITL under UC I it says:

Note: This and the below UC talents do not “stack” – the effect of UC II replaces the effect of UC I, and so on.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:30 PM   #6
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Brawling and UC talents

That is suggestive but ambiguous, as it doesn't mention Brawling specifically. Like a lot of TFT rules, you are meant to read between the lines! But I would say the principle is clear.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:23 PM   #7
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Default Re: Brawling and UC talents

If a fighter has both Brawling and UC I+, I would not add their damage bonuses together. I would use the higher of the two. You get the benefits of both skills but where they overlap, choose the greater power.
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Old 12-05-2018, 05:10 PM   #8
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Brawling and UC talents

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Originally Posted by platimus View Post
If a fighter has both Brawling and UC I+, I would not add their damage bonuses together. I would use the higher of the two. You get the benefits of both skills but where they overlap, choose the greater power.
Yes.

Dirty brawling seems generous at +2, as are the damage amounts for higher-level UC. And it seems just wrong to me that the high UC talents would reach a certain point of damage, but then you stack +2 if you have a 1-point Brawling talent?

(Also notice that a dagger only does +3 in HTH.)
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