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Old 12-03-2018, 06:47 AM   #1
Mike P.
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

In Legacy Edition TFT, UC IV states "If you take the Defend option, your attacker must roll an extra die to hit you." Does this mean that at UC IV you can now take the Defend option bare-handed, and a normal attacker must roll 4D to hit you? Or does this mean that your attacker must roll 5D to hit you?
If the latter is the case, at what level of UC can you start defending with bare hands to begin with?


These rules seemed clearer in the old TFT, where at UCIII you may "choose the "defend" option bare-handed".
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:04 AM   #2
RobW
 
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Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

I read the "extra" dice as being in addition to the normal 4D for Defend. This is because weapon expertise/mastery also use this language of "extra" dice. So, 5D to hit UC IV, 6D to hit UC V.

UC I-III, looks like can't select defend.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:06 AM   #3
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Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

Shouldn't defend scale as per weapon sizes? You can use a Main-Gauche to defend against a giant's club as long as the giant doesn't switch to a two-handed maul, right?
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Old 12-03-2018, 01:37 PM   #4
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Shouldn't defend scale as per weapon sizes? You can use a Main-Gauche to defend against a giant's club as long as the giant doesn't switch to a two-handed maul, right?
Well this is now off topic (UC talents Defending being the topic):

I'd say the Main-Gauche vs one handed weapons would be only 1 hex creature's one handed weapons. This will come down to house rules / GM Ruling.
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Old 12-03-2018, 03:12 PM   #5
platimus
 
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Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

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Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
Well this is now off topic (UC talents Defending being the topic):

I'd say the Main-Gauche vs one handed weapons would be only 1 hex creature's one handed weapons. This will come down to house rules / GM Ruling.
Yep. This is why I think Dodge and Defend should be rolled into one option called Dodge. Parry becomes a new option. Parry wouldn't affect your attackers to-hit. It would only stop so many points of damage (like temporary armor). If you choose to Parry, you must make a 4 DX check. If you pass, reduce attackers damage by 1d6. If you parry against a giant being or weapon that does 3d6+ damage, you're more than likely going to take some damage. The parry just softened the blow. Keep in mind that part of the damage reduction is from deflection and part of it is from avoidance/manuevering/side-stepping.
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:28 PM   #6
Helborn
 
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Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

I think you're looking at Parry as a block - interspersing your weapon between yourself and the attacking weapon. But a true parry simply deflects the attacking weapon so that it misses - it can shorten the arc, change the arc, change the vector - all sorts of things. A Main-Gauche can do all of those things regardless of the mass of the attacking weapon. Same with shields, the best use of a shield is to deflect, not block. Blocks are very cinematic but they use up the shield very quickly. Parries can be done bare-handed - but you REALLY have to be an expert

I think is the concept behind the extra dice to attack an expert or a master. They have learned parries.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:24 PM   #7
platimus
 
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Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

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Originally Posted by Helborn View Post
I think you're looking at Parry as a block - interspersing your weapon between yourself and the attacking weapon. But a true parry simply deflects the attacking weapon so that it misses - it can shorten the arc, change the arc, change the vector - all sorts of things. A Main-Gauche can do all of those things regardless of the mass of the attacking weapon. Same with shields, the best use of a shield is to deflect, not block. Blocks are very cinematic but they use up the shield very quickly. Parries can be done bare-handed - but you REALLY have to be an expert

I think is the concept behind the extra dice to attack an expert or a master. They have learned parries.
I have to ask: To whom are you speaking?
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:05 PM   #8
Helborn
 
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Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

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I have to ask: To whom are you speaking?
hcobb "Shouldn't defend scale as per weapon sizes? You can use a Main-Gauche to defend against a giant's club as long as the giant doesn't switch to a two-handed maul, right?"
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:21 PM   #9
Mike P.
 
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Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

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Originally Posted by RobW View Post
I read the "extra" dice as being in addition to the normal 4D for Defend. This is because weapon expertise/mastery also use this language of "extra" dice. So, 5D to hit UC IV, 6D to hit UC V.

UC I-III, looks like can't select defend.
Rob, you may well be right here. It is kind of hard to understand how the martial artist goes from not being able to defend at all at UCIII, to being able to defend so well with just bare hands that you have to roll 5D to strike him when he has UCIV. I guess this would have made more sense to me if there was an intermediate level of bare-handed defense (like UCIII in old TFT) where you roll 4D to strike him if he is defending.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:28 PM   #10
platimus
 
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Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

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hcobb "Shouldn't defend scale as per weapon sizes? You can use a Main-Gauche to defend against a giant's club as long as the giant doesn't switch to a two-handed maul, right?"
Thanks. I'm actually not sure who I agree with on this. Probably nobody. I'm actually in favor of allowing a main-gauche to stop 1 hit from, well, pretty much anything. However, I would not allow a main-gauche to force an attacker with a battle-ax to roll an extra die to hit.
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