Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-03-2018, 06:47 AM   #1
Mike P.
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

In Legacy Edition TFT, UC IV states "If you take the Defend option, your attacker must roll an extra die to hit you." Does this mean that at UC IV you can now take the Defend option bare-handed, and a normal attacker must roll 4D to hit you? Or does this mean that your attacker must roll 5D to hit you?
If the latter is the case, at what level of UC can you start defending with bare hands to begin with?


These rules seemed clearer in the old TFT, where at UCIII you may "choose the "defend" option bare-handed".
Mike P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 07:04 AM   #2
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

I read the "extra" dice as being in addition to the normal 4D for Defend. This is because weapon expertise/mastery also use this language of "extra" dice. So, 5D to hit UC IV, 6D to hit UC V.

UC I-III, looks like can't select defend.
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 09:06 AM   #3
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

Shouldn't defend scale as per weapon sizes? You can use a Main-Gauche to defend against a giant's club as long as the giant doesn't switch to a two-handed maul, right?
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 01:37 PM   #4
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Shouldn't defend scale as per weapon sizes? You can use a Main-Gauche to defend against a giant's club as long as the giant doesn't switch to a two-handed maul, right?
Well this is now off topic (UC talents Defending being the topic):

I'd say the Main-Gauche vs one handed weapons would be only 1 hex creature's one handed weapons. This will come down to house rules / GM Ruling.
Axly Suregrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 03:12 PM   #5
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
Well this is now off topic (UC talents Defending being the topic):

I'd say the Main-Gauche vs one handed weapons would be only 1 hex creature's one handed weapons. This will come down to house rules / GM Ruling.
Yep. This is why I think Dodge and Defend should be rolled into one option called Dodge. Parry becomes a new option. Parry wouldn't affect your attackers to-hit. It would only stop so many points of damage (like temporary armor). If you choose to Parry, you must make a 4 DX check. If you pass, reduce attackers damage by 1d6. If you parry against a giant being or weapon that does 3d6+ damage, you're more than likely going to take some damage. The parry just softened the blow. Keep in mind that part of the damage reduction is from deflection and part of it is from avoidance/manuevering/side-stepping.
__________________
Miranda Warning: Anything you say can and will be used against you in a forum of rules-lawyers.
platimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 05:28 PM   #6
Helborn
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

I think you're looking at Parry as a block - interspersing your weapon between yourself and the attacking weapon. But a true parry simply deflects the attacking weapon so that it misses - it can shorten the arc, change the arc, change the vector - all sorts of things. A Main-Gauche can do all of those things regardless of the mass of the attacking weapon. Same with shields, the best use of a shield is to deflect, not block. Blocks are very cinematic but they use up the shield very quickly. Parries can be done bare-handed - but you REALLY have to be an expert

I think is the concept behind the extra dice to attack an expert or a master. They have learned parries.
__________________
Helborn
Helborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 06:24 PM   #7
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helborn View Post
I think you're looking at Parry as a block - interspersing your weapon between yourself and the attacking weapon. But a true parry simply deflects the attacking weapon so that it misses - it can shorten the arc, change the arc, change the vector - all sorts of things. A Main-Gauche can do all of those things regardless of the mass of the attacking weapon. Same with shields, the best use of a shield is to deflect, not block. Blocks are very cinematic but they use up the shield very quickly. Parries can be done bare-handed - but you REALLY have to be an expert

I think is the concept behind the extra dice to attack an expert or a master. They have learned parries.
I have to ask: To whom are you speaking?
__________________
Miranda Warning: Anything you say can and will be used against you in a forum of rules-lawyers.
platimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 07:05 PM   #8
Helborn
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by platimus View Post
I have to ask: To whom are you speaking?
hcobb "Shouldn't defend scale as per weapon sizes? You can use a Main-Gauche to defend against a giant's club as long as the giant doesn't switch to a two-handed maul, right?"
__________________
Helborn
Helborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 07:21 PM   #9
Mike P.
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobW View Post
I read the "extra" dice as being in addition to the normal 4D for Defend. This is because weapon expertise/mastery also use this language of "extra" dice. So, 5D to hit UC IV, 6D to hit UC V.

UC I-III, looks like can't select defend.
Rob, you may well be right here. It is kind of hard to understand how the martial artist goes from not being able to defend at all at UCIII, to being able to defend so well with just bare hands that you have to roll 5D to strike him when he has UCIV. I guess this would have made more sense to me if there was an intermediate level of bare-handed defense (like UCIII in old TFT) where you roll 4D to strike him if he is defending.
Mike P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2018, 07:28 PM   #10
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: Defending with Unarmed Combat talents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helborn View Post
hcobb "Shouldn't defend scale as per weapon sizes? You can use a Main-Gauche to defend against a giant's club as long as the giant doesn't switch to a two-handed maul, right?"
Thanks. I'm actually not sure who I agree with on this. Probably nobody. I'm actually in favor of allowing a main-gauche to stop 1 hit from, well, pretty much anything. However, I would not allow a main-gauche to force an attacker with a battle-ax to roll an extra die to hit.
__________________
Miranda Warning: Anything you say can and will be used against you in a forum of rules-lawyers.
platimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.