Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2012, 05:58 PM   #1
nerdvana
 
nerdvana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Limitations for Magic as Powers

I'm working up my take on Magic as Powers (inspired by simulatoralive's spells on his Islands of War site). In reading powers, under accessibility, this advice is given...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GURPS Powers, p116
Such accessibility limitations as “Requires material components,” “Requires gestures,” and “Requires magic words” are common, and worth -10% apiece.
Which works, but I want more granularity in this. I foresee the following breakdowns with the listed limitation values:

Gestures: Full body (-15%), two-hands (-10%), one-hand (-5%), none required (-0%)
Words: "strongly spoken" (-10%), "softly spoken" (-5%), none required (-0%) {Updated in Post #6}
Material Components: Consumable Reagents (-10%), Reusable Focus (-10%), none required (-0%)

Couple of questions...
  1. Do those levels seem appropriate?
  2. Does the limitation for "strongly spoken" seem to be enough to cover "you must be able to speak in a strong voice" (thus being gagged or otherwise muted prevents casting entirely) and "being deafened leads to a 20% chance of spell failure"? (I'm thinking this should be both an accessibility, at 10%, and something else combined)

Last edited by nerdvana; 01-25-2012 at 07:56 PM. Reason: added link to post #6 by words
nerdvana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 06:35 PM   #2
Gef
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
Default Re: Limitations for Magic as Powers

The first two, yes. For material components, you may wish to set price thresholds and give a bigger discount for more expensive ingredients. For a specially prepared focus, you may want to use Gadget. -GEF

PS: If you have some time, read this thread: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=86470
Gef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 06:50 PM   #3
nerdvana
 
nerdvana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Limitations for Magic as Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gef View Post
The first two, yes. For material components, you may wish to set price thresholds and give a bigger discount for more expensive ingredients. For a specially prepared focus, you may want to use Gadget. -GEF
I was thinking of that, trying to figure out how to build the scale for that... I also think the numbers above are a bit off for my plans, trying to figure out the repricing of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gef View Post
PS: If you have some time, read this thread: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=86470
Thanks for the reminder, starting to reread that now
nerdvana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 07:36 PM   #4
mhd
 
mhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls
Default Re: Limitations for Magic as Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdvana View Post
Gestures: Full body (-15%), two-hands (-10%), one-hand (-5%), none required (-0%)
Words: "strongly spoken" (-10%), "softly spoken" (-5%), none required (-0%)
Material Components: Consumable Reagents (-10%), Reusable Focus (-10%), none required (-0%)
Seems a bit too good for me. P181 lists "the need to perform brief incantations, make small “casting” gestures, and have “spell components” to hand" as -10% total. With your system that's between -20% and -35%… Never mind that you'd have to be careful which modifiers are worth anything per spell, as being obvious ("strongly spoken") doesn't get you anything if you're throwing around explosive fireballs.

And why would "softly spoken" *not* be subject to gagging?
mhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 07:52 PM   #5
nerdvana
 
nerdvana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Limitations for Magic as Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhd View Post
Seems a bit too good for me. P181 lists "the need to perform brief incantations, make small “casting” gestures, and have “spell components” to hand" as -10% total. With your system that's between -20% and -35%… Never mind that you'd have to be careful which modifiers are worth anything per spell, as being obvious ("strongly spoken") doesn't get you anything if you're throwing around explosive fireballs.

And why would "softly spoken" *not* be subject to gagging?
You're exactly right about softly spoken (see my following post about a rewrite of the Verbal Component limitations). On your reference to P181, that's for Psi and my reference to P116 is specifically for Fantasy Powers where each of the three is -10% for a total of -30% (and that's RAW).
nerdvana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 07:55 PM   #6
nerdvana
 
nerdvana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Limitations for Magic as Powers

Re-written Verbal Components:

Full Invocation, -17% (either Accessibility, only when caster can hear (-10%) or Unreliable 11 (-20%), -2%; Requires Magic Words, -10%; Nuisance Effect, cannot use stealth while evoking, -5%)

Soft Invocation, -10% (Requires Magic Words, -10%)

Silent Casting, -0%

As I interpret it "Requires Magic Words" means that if you cannot speak the words you cannot cast the spell. Its an Accessibility Limitation as recommended on p. P116. The Either/Or was built by RPK in a different thread when I proved to not understand his Either/Or build discussion.

Last edited by nerdvana; 01-25-2012 at 07:59 PM.
nerdvana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 08:03 PM   #7
mhd
 
mhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls
Default Re: Limitations for Magic as Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdvana View Post
On your reference to P181, that's for Psi and my reference to P116 is specifically for Fantasy Powers where each of the three is -10% for a total of -30% (and that's RAW).
Hmm, missed that. Weird, don't see why it would make a difference whether the base power is psi or magic.

Never mind that it does seem a bit too good. How much of a detriment is a single second of speech? I can understand the gestures a bit, if it requires at least one hand free (although by the same logic, a gun as a Power would have that for aiming and pulling the trigger). And to be honest, if I'd give -10% for components, I'd actually require the wizards to track them, not the usual D&D hand-waving. But, well…
mhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 08:19 PM   #8
nerdvana
 
nerdvana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Limitations for Magic as Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhd View Post
And to be honest, if I'd give -10% for components, I'd actually require the wizards to track them, not the usual D&D hand-waving. But, well…
I intend to make the players track their components similarly to how I would make CyberPunks track their bullets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhd View Post
Hmm, missed that. Weird, don't see why it would make a difference whether the base power is psi or magic.
Possibly genre conventions?
nerdvana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 08:40 PM   #9
mhd
 
mhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls
Default Re: Limitations for Magic as Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdvana View Post
I intend to make the players track their components similarly to how I would make CyberPunks track their bullets.
So not at all? (My Cyberpunk experience was definitely more "style
over substance" than tacticool)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdvana View Post
Possibly genre conventions?
How would that change the worth of a generic limitation?

Maybe it's just assumed that they're not "really" required for psi and just pure tradition, so it doesn't need to be as stringently enforced.

(I'd definitely buy a Power Ups: Modifiers. I'm doing magic as powers myself, and especially all the time and use limitations really get confusing…)
mhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 08:47 PM   #10
nerdvana
 
nerdvana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Re: Limitations for Magic as Powers

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhd View Post
(I'd definitely buy a Power Ups: Modifiers. I'm doing magic as powers myself, and especially all the time and use limitations really get confusing…)
Agreed. I keep tweaking mine... changed part of #6 already. New version of Full Invocation:

Full Invocation, -15% (Requires Magic Words, -10%; Nuisance Effect, cannot use stealth while evoking, -5%)

Decided that "Requires Magical Words" means you have to say the words audibly (Not necessarily loudly, thus the Nuisance for full) and enunciate them properly so it has a built penalty to your skill roll if you cannot hear yourself properly. (Not sure how much of a penalty yet really)
nerdvana is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
limitations, magic powers

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.