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Old 11-21-2011, 03:52 PM   #31
Gigermann
 
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Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

I've found myself in a bit of an argument (strong term) regarding some of the bow concepts in "The Deadly Spring"; specifically WRT Aiming and Acc. The points in-question are:
  • The -2 skill (or should it be Acc?) for aiming a same-ST bow, and whether or not a negative Acc result makes any RL sense
  • The effects of further Aim maneuvers on the above (FREX, when the penalty renders a 3-sec Aim to +0)
  • Whether or not the Acc figures listed account for the "Harsh Realism" option for bow accuracy
The question is to the writer(s) and/or anyone with RL experience with strong bows, and the effects on aiming: How did you end up with these figures, and how does it stack up with RL experience?
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:31 PM   #32
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Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

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Originally Posted by Gigermann View Post
I've found myself in a bit of an argument (strong term) regarding some of the bow concepts in "The Deadly Spring"; specifically WRT Aiming and Acc. The points in-question are:
[LIST][*]The -2 skill (or should it be Acc?) for aiming a same-ST bow, and whether or not a negative Acc result makes any RL sense
It is defiantly harder to keep a bow on target if its close to your ST or even if your fatigued.
I used to shoot re-curves before switching to a compound and the harder draw of heavier bows made my arm waver which would affect accuracy.
And even my regular bow 75 lbs I could draw but after a few dozen shots got tiring and was really probably too heavy for me. That is what I like about compounds, your only hitting that draw for a moment but once it get past that the hold time on those things is easy. I could hold it for minutes if I needed to.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:56 PM   #33
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Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

If you watch someone shooting a heavy warbow you'll see that they can't hold it while they aim. They pull back and release in the same turn. They can get pretty accurate with practice but they'll never be as accurate as someone with similar skill level shooting a lighter bow.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:07 PM   #34
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Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

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  • The effects of further Aim maneuvers on the above (FREX, when the penalty renders a 3-sec Aim to +0)
I struggle with that logic. Taking a turn to aim should not make you less likely to hit your target, and then after taking the full 3 turns of aiming, the result is a shot at the same level of skill, had you not bothered aiming in the first place.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:21 PM   #35
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Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigermann View Post
I've found myself in a bit of an argument (strong term) regarding some of the bow concepts in "The Deadly Spring"; specifically WRT Aiming and Acc. The points in-question are:
[*]The -2 skill (or should it be Acc?) for aiming a same-ST bow, and whether or not a negative Acc result makes any RL sense
Skill. As Refplace and Dan mention, it's just harder to shoot a heavy bow that's close to the max you can pull.

Quote:
[*]The effects of further Aim maneuvers on the above (FREX, when the penalty renders a 3-sec Aim to +0)
You can only hold Aim for one second (just enough to get the bonus) if your ST is +1 the ST of the bow. You can hold aim for four seconds (Aim + 3 more) if it's +4 over the ST of the bow. That's the intent.

One of the most accurate shooters I saw in real life would draw the bow as she raised it, and loose as soon as her bow was level. She hit where she was aiming at every time. So you could "waive" the first second, and say "you can Aim for one second," but holding aim beyond that requires more ST.

Quote:
[*]Whether or not the Acc figures listed account for the "Harsh Realism" option for bow accuracy
These were pasted from the spreadsheet; as such, they were calculated from the bow's Velocity and Bulk according to the formula, with bonuses for Fine bow and arrow.


Quote:
The question is to the writer(s) and/or anyone with RL experience with strong bows, and the effects on aiming: How did you end up with these figures, and how does it stack up with RL experience?
I don't consider myself an archer. I have seen real people shoot powerful bows, such as video of Mark Stretton shooting a 180-lb (or more) longbow. I've seen performances by longbow enthusiasts at the typical Ren Faire, as it happens while I was researching the article, and paid attention to how they draw and shoot. I have shot recurves, compound bows, and played around with bows from 45-70#.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:23 PM   #36
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Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

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Originally Posted by Ronnke View Post
I struggle with that logic. Taking a turn to aim should not make you less likely to hit your target, and then after taking the full 3 turns of aiming, the result is a shot at the same level of skill, had you not bothered aiming in the first place.
The penalty is to skill, not Aim. Thus, if you don't use the rule where you can only Aim for as many seconds as your ST exceeds the bow's ST, just apply aim normally with the -2 to skill in place.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:31 PM   #37
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Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

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Skill. As Refplace and Dan mention, it's just harder to shoot a heavy bow that's close to the max you can pull.
By that, do mean that it should apply when you are not aiming? I wouldn't take issue with that, but that's not how it's worded in the article:
Quote:
When aiming, if your ST is equal to the ST of the bow, take a -2 penalty to skill;
If it only applies when aiming, then it might as well be an Acc penalty. [Ninja'd]

Having said that, thinking it through, I think I do see how it could end up being worse to aim—in having to hold the draw for a full second while you line up the target (hence the rule to limit how long you can do that at all).
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:43 PM   #38
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Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

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Having said that, thinking it through, I think I do see how it could end up being worse to aim—in having to hold the draw for a full second while you line up the target (hence the rule to limit how long you can do that at all).
You got it. Drawing and holding the bow long enough to Aim causes a loss in skill, which is offset by holding aim a bit.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:56 PM   #39
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Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

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One of the most accurate shooters I saw in real life would draw the bow as she raised it, and loose as soon as her bow was level. She hit where she was aiming at every time. So you could "waive" the first second, and say "you can Aim for one second," but holding aim beyond that requires more ST.
This seems a more logical. Just as a side thought, given your description, would it be unreasonable to infer that the archer is aiming as part of the draw?
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:58 PM   #40
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Default Re: Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

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Originally Posted by Ronnke View Post
This seems a more logical. Just as a side thought, given your description, would it be unreasonable to infer that the archer is aiming as part of the draw?
That's the way I see it; I'd model that in GURPS as perhaps a Fast-Draw (making the draw a zero-second action) and Aim.

You could also allow it as a Perk (Ready, Aim!)
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