Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-30-2019, 04:17 PM   #11
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: 3 hex charge pole weapon rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Octopus with a Reverse Missiles ring and three Pike Axes against a party that doesn't have any magic will force retreats and knock the humans down to force the humans to always have to make "charge attacks" every turn until they're all dead.
Looks like an off-topic lure to the Sidetrack Swamp. I'm not taking the bait.

"The caustigus, the caustigus...
once you're in, you're lost to us..."
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2019, 06:00 PM   #12
TippetsTX
 
TippetsTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: 3 hex charge pole weapon rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
My reading is that the pole-arm defender against a short (1-2 hex) charge gets the +2 bonus to adjDX but not the 1d damage bonus. Do people agree with this or not?
TBH, I don't think a one or two-hex move (followed by an attack) should be considered a 'charge' at all. Having a 3-hex minimum, straight line or not, just makes sense to me.
__________________
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos
TippetsTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 06:55 AM   #13
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: 3 hex charge pole weapon rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
TBH, I don't think a one or two-hex move (followed by an attack) should be considered a 'charge' at all. Having a 3-hex minimum, straight line or not, just makes sense to me.
Yeah, me neither. The rules said 'move one hex and attack' or 'move up to half MA and charge attack', and we always took this to mean you could move one hex and not be charging. Or to put it another way, you had to move more than one hex to get charge bonuses. This seemed sensible as the damage bonus presumably worked off some kind of momentum. It worked fine for us and pole weapons were still dangerous, albeit they were doubled on a charge.

I have been roundly told we had it completely wrong tho. :)
MikMod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 07:06 AM   #14
TippetsTX
 
TippetsTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: 3 hex charge pole weapon rule

A one-hex charge only works in football or rugby.
;)
__________________
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos
TippetsTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 08:07 AM   #15
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: 3 hex charge pole weapon rule

Here's the wording I'm going to use.

A charge attack occurs when the attacker and defender entered three or more new hexes during movement. A multi-hex figure doesn't count any movement spinning in its own hexes for this. Only hexes newly moved into during the current turn count. (If the attacker backed up a hex and the defender entered a starting empty hex then the attacker's old hex and was therefore engaged this would be three hexes moved into.)

Any melee attack used when the charge attack totaled eight or more hexes does +2 damage.

Pole weapons used in charge attacks strike before other melee weapons. This is resolved at the adjDX of the attacker or defender, whichever is higher.

If the attacker entered no new hexes during movement then she gets +2 DX for her pole weapon charge charge attack.

If the attacker entered no new hexes or moved the last three hexes in a straight line she adds one die of damage for a pole weapon attack.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 09:13 AM   #16
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: 3 hex charge pole weapon rule

I actually disagree with the 3 hex minimum charge rule (i.e., to get the 1d damage bonus). I think it both nerf's pole weapons and isn't physically accurate. But it is what it is, and I prefer to play meat-and-potatoes rules in a way that is consistent with what the rest of the community is doing unless there is some compelling reason to go off in a different direction.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 11:11 AM   #17
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: 3 hex charge pole weapon rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
... Or to put it another way, you had to move more than one hex to get charge bonuses. This seemed sensible as the damage bonus presumably worked off some kind of momentum. It worked fine for us and pole weapons were still dangerous, albeit they were doubled on a charge.

I have been roundly told we had it completely wrong tho. :)
I don't imagine the extra polearm damage being about momentum from running.

I imagine it being about leverage with a long pole. If someone has a long pole and is holding it pointed at someone outside the pole's reach, and the other person tries to move (at whatever speed) towards the pole-weapon holder going right up the firmly-held pole (i.e. on a hit), they're going to either be stopped, skewered, or else have to shove the pole-holder back using whatever body part was hit by the pole, and if the pole is sharp... well, to me that's obviously a very damage-risking thing to do, even with no particular speed.

The "normal" (i.e. lower than other weapons of the same ST) pole weapon damage, on the other hand, is (to me) about hitting someone inside the reach of the pole, where it's not geometrically possible to get your whole weight behind it.

I would encourage people to (safely) horse around with two people and a long (at least 4-feet) pole. Start 10 feet apart, and have the guy with the pole point it at the other guy while the other guy tries to get at the guy with the pole. My experience of doing this makes it pretty clear that even on a slow approach, the guy with the pole has a very threatening and encroachment-denying situation to work with as long as the other guy doesn't get past the point of the pole.

If you remove bonus damage from defensive polearms unless the attacker obliges you by doing certain movements, it basically removes from the game system any representation of this ability to stand people off with a pole.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 11:56 AM   #18
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: 3 hex charge pole weapon rule

Anyone who has trained with a range of medieval/renaissance weapons knows that all pole arms get radically under-rated in most games, in several ways but particularly when it comes to damage. It is ludicrous that a 1-handed sword and a halberd do nearly the same base damage, in TFT and most other games. Particularly in a game where armor reduces damage rather than to-hit (i.e., you could argue 1E AD+D gets things about right by way of increasing the halberd to-hit through the weapon vs. armor type table). A 2H spear jab is much more powerful than a sword thrust - enough so that there is basically no way to safely free-spar with an inflexible spear or staff simulator, even in heavy gear.

So, as I see it the charge damage bonus is just getting pole arms up to where they really should be all the time.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 12:55 PM   #19
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: 3 hex charge pole weapon rule

My take on it preserves the damage if the halberd user has room to back up.

Turn one: Swordsman closes to two hexes away and gets poked by halberd.

Turn two: Halberd user backs up a step while swordsman advances two hexes. Total of three hexes moved so counts as a charge attack.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 01:03 PM   #20
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: 3 hex charge pole weapon rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Anyone who has trained with a range of medieval/renaissance weapons knows that all pole arms get radically under-rated in most games, in several ways but particularly when it comes to damage. It is ludicrous that a 1-handed sword and a halberd do nearly the same base damage, in TFT and most other games. Particularly in a game where armor reduces damage rather than to-hit (i.e., you could argue 1E AD+D gets things about right by way of increasing the halberd to-hit through the weapon vs. armor type table). A 2H spear jab is much more powerful than a sword thrust - enough so that there is basically no way to safely free-spar with an inflexible spear or staff simulator, even in heavy gear.

So, as I see it the charge damage bonus is just getting pole arms up to where they really should be all the time.
Yes, I quite agree.

Compare:
ST 13 DX 11 Bastardsword 2d+1 Small Shield stops 1 per attack
ST 13 DX 11 Halberd 2d, no protection

The halberd is disadvantaged 1 point of damage and 1 point of protection. If a charge can happen, it gets +1d but that averages +3.5, maybe (only on a hit), usually just once.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
My take on it preserves the damage if the halberd user has room to back up.

Turn one: Swordsman closes to two hexes away and gets poked by halberd.

Turn two: Halberd user backs up a step while swordsman advances two hexes. Total of three hexes moved so counts as a charge attack.
This is only one possible way a situation might possibly play out, and not even I think the most common one, even with a proposed movement requirement for charge damage.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.