Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-09-2018, 02:26 PM   #471
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
Sorry; I was unclear. I meant that if the rules have images of 3-hex charges, specifically a charge against the grain, that will make explanation easier.
Ah, that makes sense. Agreed; and it's much easier to include diagrams than in the hot wax and pasteup days.

If you ever have copious amounts of free time, I think many gamers would be interested to know what went into laying out a game before the advent of desktop publishing. I was a typesetter at the dawn of desktop publishing (1985-88) and saw a little of the Old Ways. But I never laid out anything as complex as a book or game.

And of course, end with "and we LIKED it". http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-li...an/n9948?snl=1

Last edited by tbeard1999; 02-09-2018 at 02:43 PM.
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 02:32 PM   #472
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

Steve: Your locked-thread post sounds awesome; full steam ahead! Thanks for all your work on this.
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 04:05 PM   #473
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Thoughts on Monster Book.

Hi all,
People on this thread have suggested a separate Monster Book as part of the base TFT package, and I heartily agree.

I suggest that most entries in the monster book use an Adjective Noun format with several entries. For example, do not just do a Troll, but a Cave Troll, Hill Troll, Mountain Troll, Bridge Troll, etc. (I believe I have a score of troll variations in my campaign.) I have 5 different types of Wyverns, 4 types of Basilisks, 4 major types of dragons, 3 varieties of Entelodonts (prehistoric killer pigs that rammed you, knocking you down), etc.

This has several advantages: first it adds considerably more monsters. Second, it allows the base rules for trolls to be written once, but several related monsters are generated, minimizing text. Third, it gives the GM a variety of different powered monsters to challenge starting parties, and strong parties filled with magic. (Assuming that there are easy and very tough trolls.)

In my campaign, trolls are pretty hum-drum enemies. But there is a spark of fear when a 5 hex Mountain Troll drops.

For purely selfish reason, I hope that the monster book is light on undead. (I hope to pitch an idea for a Clerics and Undead expansion for the New TFT.)

As for counters, I'm fine with flat cardboard counters. For a while I tried miniatures, but could not find them for the cool monsters I wanted (e.g. the killer pig above). Also, they are super expensive, require a tonne of storage, and you have to paint them to make them look good. (Also, I can hand draw weird monsters on cardboard, but I can't cast new miniatures.)

Cardboard heroes are OK, but my friends and I are used to, and happy with, flat counters.

If you do micro-quests with a counter sheet, give some thought to adding more variety of monsters. Every TFT supplement has wolf counters - I have plenty. If Death Test had a few Hymenopteran counters, that would have been much more welcome. If you must include wolves in an adventure, why not spice things up with counters for 2 hex dire wolves, and 3 hex wargs? Instead of yet another bear, please add a 4 hex cave bear.

A dream expansion for me would be a box with a dozen sheets of cardboard counters (with lots of multihex figures and some terrain) along with 8.5" x 11" pages (hole punched) describing the new monsters introduced in this expansion. I have a 3 ring binder which has been slowly accumulating monsters over the years. The new critters could drop right in.

If TFT is to be successful we want to make it easy to expand it. Metagaming's biggest failing is not producing expansions with new spells, new lists of magic items, new collections of monsters, etc. Let us say that Metagaming had produced a product that gave rules for magical artifacts (a page of them) and two score powerful new spells. 90% of all TFT GM would have lined up to buy it. Instead they gave us Dragons of the Underearth, which repackaged stuff we already owned. Boy did I feel cheated.

To summarize, I hope new TFT has lots of new monsters, and some thought is given as to how to gracefully add more as time goes by.

Warm regards, Rick

Last edited by Rick_Smith; 02-09-2018 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Fixed spelling error.
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 04:18 PM   #474
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Default Re: The Fantasy Trip

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Steve: Your locked-thread post sounds awesome; full steam ahead! Thanks for all your work on this.
Seconded! I'm really looking forward to whatever it is you decide to go with!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi all,
People on this thread have suggested a separate Monster Book as part of the base TFT package, and I heartily agree.
-snip-
I do too. I'm not hardover on format or anything, but I really think it's a wonderful opportunity to provide a much more detailed look at the monsters from ITL, as well as any additions SJG cares to make. It would also shave quite a few pages off of ITL, which might allow enough room for some good mass combat, sea combat, or aerial combat rules... ;-)

Last edited by JLV; 02-09-2018 at 04:27 PM.
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 08:25 PM   #475
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Thoughts on Monster Book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi all,
People on this thread have suggested a separate Monster Book as part of the base TFT package, and I heartily agree.

I suggest that most entries in the monster book use an Adjective Noun format with several entries. For example, do not just do a Troll, but a Cave Troll, Hill Troll, Mountain Troll, Bridge Troll, etc. (I believe I have a score of troll variations in my campaign.) I have 5 different types of Wyverns, 4 types of Basilisks, 4 major types of dragons, 3 varieties of Entelodonts (prehistoric killer pigs that rammed you, knocking you down), etc.

This has several advantages: first it adds considerably more monsters. Second, it allows the base rules for trolls to be written once, but several related monsters are generated, minimizing text. Third, it gives the GM a variety of different powered monsters to challenge starting parties, and strong parties filled with magic. (Assuming that there are easy and very tough trolls.)

In my campaign, trolls are pretty hum-drum enemies. But there is a spark of fear when a 5 hex Mountain Troll drops.

For purely selfish reason, I hope that the monster book is light on undead. (I hope to pitch an idea for a Clerics and Undead expansion for the New TFT.)

As for counters, I'm fine with flat cardboard counters. For a while I tried miniatures, but could not find them for the cool monsters I wanted (e.g. the killer pig above). Also, they are super expensive, require a tonne of storage, and you have to paint them to make them look good. (Also, I can hand draw weird monsters on cardboard, but I can't cast new miniatures.)

Cardboard heroes are OK, but my friends and I are used to, and happy with, flat counters.

If you do micro-quests with a counter sheet, give some thought to adding more variety of monsters. Every TFT supplement has wolf counters - I have plenty. If Death Test had a few Hymenopteran counters, that would have been much more welcome. If you must include wolves in an adventure, why not spice things up with counters for 2 hex dire wolves, and 3 hex wargs? Instead of yet another bear, please add a 4 hex cave bear.

A dream expansion for me would be a box with a dozen sheets of cardboard counters (with lots of multihex figures and some terrain) along with 8.5" x 11" pages (hole punched) describing the new monsters introduced in this expansion. I have a 3 ring binder which has been slowly accumulating monsters over the years. The new critters could drop right in.

If TFT is to be successful we want to make it easy to expand it. Metagaming's biggest failing is not producing expansions with new spells, new lists of magic items, new collections of monsters, etc. Let us say that Metagaming had produced a product that gave rules for magical artifacts (a page of them) and two score powerful new spells. 90% of all TFT GM would have lined up to buy it. Instead they gave us Dragons of the Underearth, which repackaged stuff we already owned. Boy did I feel cheated.

To summarize, I hope new TFT has lots of new monsters, and some thought is given as to how to gracefully add more as time goes by.

Warm regards, Rick
Agreed on, well, everything. It would be very nice to get some thicker TFT counters. I thought I was the only one who liked counters. While waiting for NeoTFT, you might take a look at www.printplaygames.com . I can vouch for the quality of their 3/4” square counters. I ran out several hundred for a naval board wargame that uses the classic War at Sea/Victory in the Pacific system. They are about as thick as classic Avalon Hill/SPI counters. Also, you can get a sample pack of their other stuff. 108 3/4” counters cost 4.15 double sided and 3.35 single sided. Turnaround is very quick and they were very helpful. They have templates you can download as well.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 02-10-2018 at 06:46 AM.
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2018, 09:42 PM   #476
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Default Re: Thoughts on Monster Book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
Agreed on, well, everything. It would be very nice to get some thicker TFT counters. I thought I was the only one who liked counters. While waiting for NeoTFT, you might take a look at www.printplaygames.com . I can vouch for the quality of their 3/4” square counters. I ran out several hundred for a naval board wargame that uses the classic War at Sea/Victory in the Pacific system. They are about as thick as classic Avalon Hill/SPI counters. Also, you can get a sample pack of their other stuff. 108 3/4” counters cost 4.15 dubbed sided and 3.35 single sided. Turnaround is very quick and they were very helpful. They have templates you can download as well.
Another interesting site for replacement counters is: Camelot Games

While they aren't as seemingly flexible as Print N Play is, that turns out not to be quite the case. I critiqued their replacement Prussian counters for the old Avalon Hill game War and Peace for having Prussian allied units that were almost completely illegible and suggested changing the "yellow on pale gray background" to "orange on pale gray background," and they promptly sent me a replacement sheet for the Prussians printed as I suggested. Which tells me that if you can provide them with the art work, they'll print anything you send them -- especially if they are allowed to sell it themselves. An even better feature of their counters is that they are printed on a plasticized form of cardboard, which makes their counters VERY sturdy and likely to last for decades longer than the typical die-cut counters you see in most places are. They can and do print counters of any size and shape you can imagine since they seem to provide a lot of counters for old AH games like Civilization and what-not, and they also print maps (you should see some of their variant maps for things like Blitzkrieg, War and Peace, and several other games).

In short, if you want superb quality, and have the art work in hand for them to print, I can safely say you could do a lot worse. I offer this suggestion primarily for those players who can do the art work (or have a template suitable for printing from some other source), and want a very high-quality 'short' production run on maps or counters.
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 06:49 AM   #477
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Thoughts on Monster Book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Another interesting site for replacement counters is: Camelot Games

While they aren't as seemingly flexible as Print N Play is, that turns out not to be quite the case. I critiqued their replacement Prussian counters for the old Avalon Hill game War and Peace for having Prussian allied units that were almost completely illegible and suggested changing the "yellow on pale gray background" to "orange on pale gray background," and they promptly sent me a replacement sheet for the Prussians printed as I suggested. Which tells me that if you can provide them with the art work, they'll print anything you send them -- especially if they are allowed to sell it themselves. An even better feature of their counters is that they are printed on a plasticized form of cardboard, which makes their counters VERY sturdy and likely to last for decades longer than the typical die-cut counters you see in most places are. They can and do print counters of any size and shape you can imagine since they seem to provide a lot of counters for old AH games like Civilization and what-not, and they also print maps (you should see some of their variant maps for things like Blitzkrieg, War and Peace, and several other games).

In short, if you want superb quality, and have the art work in hand for them to print, I can safely say you could do a lot worse. I offer this suggestion primarily for those players who can do the art work (or have a template suitable for printing from some other source), and want a very high-quality 'short' production run on maps or counters.
I didn’t realize they would do custom jobs. I never found that on their website. If they do, then I’ll likely try them. For some inexplicable reason printnplay doesn’t do 1/2” counters (the size used in 95% of wargames).
tbeard1999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 10:11 AM   #478
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Experience Points for Campaigns. - Simplify.

Hi all,
I remember long ago when I was GM'ing TFT at a game club at the local university. I had a new player, Glenn, and he was pretty impressed with TFT.

Everyone sitting about and telling verbally, this really cool story. He had never experienced something like it before and was entranced.

Then combat started. In his words, "Everyone leaned forward and started doing paperwork."

It was off putting, but he stuck with it, and ended up playing TFT for several years.

I find that the experience system in TFT is too slow and too fiddly. It is obviously from the Melee board game, where exp had to be clear with no GM decision making needed.

It also rewards the players who are combat monsters, which can result in a positive feedback loop where the rich get richer.

I think the new TFT should simplify and speed up how experience is earned.

In my campaign, I give experience for combat and time spent in play at the end of each combat and at the end of the session. People generally get the same amount with small bonuses for doing well.

(I also give 5 exp per wound honourably earned, to reward people in the thick of things. In a simplified system this reward would likely go away.)

Warm regards, Rick
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 10:40 AM   #479
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Experience Points for Campaigns. - Simplify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi all,
I remember long ago when I was GM'ing TFT at a game club at the local university. I had a new player, Glenn, and he was pretty impressed with TFT.

Everyone sitting about and telling verbally, this really cool story. He had never experienced something like it before and was entranced.

Then combat started. In his words, "Everyone leaned forward and started doing paperwork."

It was off putting, but he stuck with it, and ended up playing TFT for several years.

I find that the experience system in TFT is too slow and too fiddly. It is obviously from the Melee board game, where exp had to be clear with no GM decision making needed.

It also rewards the players who are combat monsters, which can result in a positive feedback loop where the rich get richer.

I think the new TFT should simplify and speed up how experience is earned.

In my campaign, I give experience for combat and time spent in play at the end of each combat and at the end of the session. People generally get the same amount with small bonuses for doing well.

(I also give 5 exp per wound honourably earned, to reward people in the thick of things. In a simplified system this reward would likely go away.)

Warm regards, Rick
I'm not much interested in bookkeeping and never paid any attention to the experience systems in any RPG I've played. I just gave everyone a point at the conclusion of a scenario, adventure or whatever passage of play I'd decided was significant, so there was none of this "doing paperwork" during the game. I'd ideally do away with things like continuing spell costs and ST reduction too and just have a few states like stunned, wounded, disabled and dead instead.
Chris Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 12:12 PM   #480
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Pole Weapons and Charge Attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
I have found halberd and pole axes caused most of the problems, so I've nerfed them specifically. When they charge they do damage like a heavy spear, but when not charging they swing like an ax.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
I think this is on the right path.

WRT 3-hex charges - a picture, or a couple of pictures, will be worth a thousand words here.
Didn't the latest Metagaming reprints of basic Melee simply have pole weapons do +1d damage rather than double, or is that a house rule? Either way, it is a simple way of doing this.

The 3-hex "in a straight line" seems to me a bit odd since it leads to some people backing up and charging forward, I'm not sure I believe polearms really work that way, and if keeping the same damage bonus for defensive polearm use, then that seems to be at odds with the need for a 3-hex charge on the attack.

A simpler limit that would still help is just to have the damage bonus require the polearm user to not be engaged with anyone at the start of their turn.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
in the labyrinth, melee, roleplaying, the fantasy trip, wizard

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.